Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
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Jura The idiot
General
yeah
is a clickbait based on
Вице-премьер Юрий Борисов не видит смысла форсировать массовое производство Су-57
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That article is so offensively inaccurate. Although I personally agree with the premise, where on earth did they find the insolence to say it is a $40M (presumably USD) fighter when even a Su-35S for export is WELL beyond that price tag. Sure some Russian sources may have suggested at this number but no self-respecting journalist should carry on propelling a rumour as fact without disclosing the truth, ie that figure being a complete unofficial guess from pro-Su-57 sources. Just for this reason alone, it is fair to ignore this POS article. Again Business Insider reporting on military matters is dogshit. Su-57 is also not "cancelled" at least confirmation has not been announced, in fact they even ordered 12. Western media doing its usual job of misinforming everyone. Again.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Let me boil it all down. the Russian Trend Promise big, yet deliver... not so much.
Tass was Trying to Walk back Grandiose claims that SU57 would be at maybe 55 units by now with hype that they would have 200 on oder for Russia and more to India but Reality kicked in and this is nowhere near that. So Tass had to dump an ice bucket on the Fan Boi and say Sorry guys 12 units now not the 50+ we were promised This kinda got blown up by The Diplomat and run with by Business insider.
End of the Day, No The SU57 was Never going to enter mass production before 2020, I doubt even 2025. It's going to continue in small batches for sometime. Even then it's questionable just how many will actually be built It's highly likely that this will never brake 200 units.
Tass was Trying to Walk back Grandiose claims that SU57 would be at maybe 55 units by now with hype that they would have 200 on oder for Russia and more to India but Reality kicked in and this is nowhere near that. So Tass had to dump an ice bucket on the Fan Boi and say Sorry guys 12 units now not the 50+ we were promised This kinda got blown up by The Diplomat and run with by Business insider.
End of the Day, No The SU57 was Never going to enter mass production before 2020, I doubt even 2025. It's going to continue in small batches for sometime. Even then it's questionable just how many will actually be built It's highly likely that this will never brake 200 units.
It's the Price the Russians wanted to get to via mass Production and you are correct it is fiction. This is not the First time they have done this. They did the Same thing with the T14 Armata, They list a super low unit price of about 3.7 Million US, yet That is not the actual unit price It's the Objective Price. What they feel they will get it to assuming every thing goes well. Business Insider is not a good military news source they just look at the press package and don't bother with much more.
All of that is not relevant to how much that article is playing up this Russian "failure". Somehow 12 orders became no plans for mass production which became canceled. It's similar to the nonsense these sources write about Chinese military. The whole thing is a western attempt at sophism to dehumanise their "enemies", play up the threat of violence from nations like China and Russia, and still degrade their efforts. It's aim is to fulfill the fantasies of Russia and China haters who will just like one aspect of what they write and stick with that narrative. Russia has in recent years responded to these western propaganda efforts and China should act similarly soon.
Even if they have failed with the Su-57 and will not be ordering any more than 12, we really should just wait a couple of years and see the trends then. These guys just need to shut tf up and let things play out without stoking the emotional fanboys from every side. Yeah minimal orders, India currently not interested in FGFA, and delays with final productions probably do reveal a lot about the Su-57 that some of us have suspected for a while, the western press is kicking them hard and counting their chickens before the Russians have even a chance to consolidate Sukhoi's efforts with Su-57. We can all have our suspicions and expectations but these journalists don't know better.
Even if they have failed with the Su-57 and will not be ordering any more than 12, we really should just wait a couple of years and see the trends then. These guys just need to shut tf up and let things play out without stoking the emotional fanboys from every side. Yeah minimal orders, India currently not interested in FGFA, and delays with final productions probably do reveal a lot about the Su-57 that some of us have suspected for a while, the western press is kicking them hard and counting their chickens before the Russians have even a chance to consolidate Sukhoi's efforts with Su-57. We can all have our suspicions and expectations but these journalists don't know better.
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SinoSoldier
Colonel
I would suggest taking that story with a massive spoonful of salt given the impeccable credibility of Business Insider and the Diplomat which it quotes. There are a few rumors that Mr. Borisov actually said something along the lines of "the Su-35 is one of the best in the world, so there is no need to mass-produce [the Su-57] at this point" or that the "cancellation" refers to the LRIP Su-57s using Al-31Fs instead of Izdeliye 30 engines.
No kidding. How do you cancel mass production that you haven't even committed to yet?! Talk about having it bass ackwards - suddenly the first move *toward* putting the aircraft into production becomes cancellation of the same.
And then the author and supposed RUSI expert Bronk have the gall to decry the logic behind cancelling production (nonsense anyway, as we've established) on the basis that "Borisov said the [Su-57] is so much better than everything out there that Russia doesn't need to build it". Never mind the fact that he actually said (as SinoSoldier alludes) it made no sense to rush Su-57 production when the *Su-35* was plenty good enough for the time being. Thanks Jura for digging up the original source of Borisov's comments so we can check for ourselves - absolutely hilarious!
Whether you agree with the deputy PM's premise that the Su-35 is sufficient or not, the journalism in that article is appalling.
Dizasta1
Senior Member
I truly don't understand the point of writing such articles with such absurd headlines. All in the efforts to make Russia look bad. All this BS about Russia makes lofty claims but then doesn't deliver.
Well excuse me for being blunt, but what do you expect when the West has Russia under sanctions. And not to forget that the whole "Oil Glut" was specifically contrived to put all the stops on Russia's acceleration towards revamping its military. Also don't forget that flipping Ukraine to become pro-West has also played a huge role in slowing down Russia's progress in modernizing its navy.
You've got to be blind as a bat not to see these things and then go on to suggest that Russians make grandiose claims but fail to deliver.
Well despite all the efforts, Russia has still managed to defeat ISIS and avert Syria becoming another Libya. As well as developing some of the most advance weapons that are for all purposes, a game changer.
So forgive me for saying this, but I don't buy all this BS from Business Insider or whatever they call themselves these days.
Well excuse me for being blunt, but what do you expect when the West has Russia under sanctions. And not to forget that the whole "Oil Glut" was specifically contrived to put all the stops on Russia's acceleration towards revamping its military. Also don't forget that flipping Ukraine to become pro-West has also played a huge role in slowing down Russia's progress in modernizing its navy.
You've got to be blind as a bat not to see these things and then go on to suggest that Russians make grandiose claims but fail to deliver.
Well despite all the efforts, Russia has still managed to defeat ISIS and avert Syria becoming another Libya. As well as developing some of the most advance weapons that are for all purposes, a game changer.
So forgive me for saying this, but I don't buy all this BS from Business Insider or whatever they call themselves these days.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Should I be taking that personally? As that sumerizes my statement as well. I feel it to be true. They have claimed they will have Hypersonic fighters, Wonder Tanks, Masses of super high end fighters, new nuclear carriers and LHA.... And have gotten? Even there small arms programs like the AN94 and Groch pistol fell flat.
sorry but this is not a new trend, they have started big programs and projects yet been forced to cut them back or cancel all together for various reasons time and time again from as far back as the 70's. Sanction or not. This would have happened with or without sanctions.
The "Oil Glut" may have been contrived as you say, but if it worked as you claim it means that the Russian Federation is balanced on a knifes edge and the Russian Leadership failed to learn the lessons of the USSR.
The Ukraine industrial share with the Russian Federation has been rocky from the moment the USSR ended. The Russian Federation has done everything it can to extricate itself from dependency on the former Warsaw pact industry share. Where you see any reliance on the Ukraine is a program that predates the fall of the USSR and no other alternative remains. Over the last two decades the Russian Military and Space program have looked into every possible degree of eliminating Ukrainian industry from there machines even to the point of disaster. I remember the Mir impact incident do you? The Pride of the Russian Space program Mir was to dock with a Progress freighter for a test. That test? To see if the Cosmonauts could control the Progress and dock with out use of a telemetry radar set made in the Ukraine. The result, was the collision and hull breach of Mir's newest module. That is just one example
The AN70 is another where the Russian Airforce killed there funding of a ready to go transport because spending money in the Ukraine was looked at unfavorably compared to indigenous state industry.
.... Well since Bats actually have good eye sight.... Sorry this is just the latest in a long run of Russian programs that go this route, they end up either delayed, ordered in small numbers that are far short of initial public announcement or totally cancelled. Sanctions or no this is the Norm.
We see this with the SU35 where they made air of claims of best fighter ever the new back none of the Russian Airforce and almost nothing. If not for foreign buys the Russians would have only bought a few dozen and called it quits.