Russia Vs Georgia..a widening crisis!

Finn McCool said:

I think its sort of ironic that the Abkhazians and South Ossetians seem to be so jubilant about their newfound independence. The only form of economic activity in the provinces before the war was smuggling and other crime that took advantage of their unique status. Other than that people lived off Russian pensions. Now the smuggling is gone (militarized border, no economic exchange anyway) and since relastically there isn't much chance of them returning to Georgia the Russians don't have reason to subsidize them anymore. Just about the only economic opportunity Abkhazia and South Ossetia will have is building up industries based on "servicing" the inevitable thousands of Russian "peacekeepers" that will soon be based there.

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Actually Abkhazia can look forward to being involved in the 2014 Olympics. Though that may lead to them being boycotted by the West.

:rofl: Russia is not going to allow Georgia to rearm. After all the trouble they went through to defeat Georgia and disarm it....

Make no mistake. Russia intends to control Georgia for the foreseeable future. At the very least, they will strategically and economically cripple Georgia by a "flexible use" of buffer zones (is it 10 km? is it 50 km? :rofl They will interdict any arms shipments and cut any military exchanges.

They hold all the cards and they're not stupid enough to simply give it away. Of course, the west does want to rebuild the remaining Georgia territory. And that's where the fault line is going to be for the foreseeable future.

Jeff Head said:

The Russians have already demonstrated that they are not interested in aiding the Georgians.

The US will not commit tons of supplies to what the US and Georgians consider to be the agressor. They will handle the distribution themselves.

My guess is, if the Russians have not left Poti, that there will higher tensions in that area, while the supplies are offloaded at Batumi.

But I also believe that the Russians will leave Poti in the near future. After all, they have signed an agreement committing themselves to do so, and their President has promised that they would do so as well.

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This will come as news to the many Russian Red Cross volunteers that have been busy in South Ossetia and Georgia for the last couple of weeks. There have been many reports of local Georgian officals trying to disrupt these deliveries. Add to this your clear assertion that you think aid should used as a Political and Propaganda weapon (and one that directly targets the most vulnerable members of the civilian population) then you are describing a policy that is reprehensible to all civilised nations and people.

However, that said this is moving into dangerous territory and should continue only via PM.

SampanViking said:

This will come as news to the many Russian Red Cross volunteers that have been busy in South Ossetia and Georgia for the last couple of weeks. There have been many reports of local Georgian officals trying to disrupt these deliveries. Add to this your clear assertion that you think aid should used as a Political and Propaganda weapon (and one that directly targets the most vulnerable members of the civilian population) then you are describing a policy that is reprehensible to all civilised nations and people.

However, that said this is moving into dangerous territory and should continue only via PM.

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Perhaps a PM is in order, but certainly not before I say something to your assertions against my person that you have made in a public forum.

I find it funny that you would make such assertions publically and then expect that a response should only be made in a PM.

As to your assertions, I have neither implied or said any such thing about aid being used as a politcal or propoganda tool. Those are your words and judgements. As I am the one most familiar with my own thoughts and meanings I can and do flatly deny them and tell you straight up that you are wrong about my intentions and meanings.

I do believe and continue to state that the Russian forces around Poti should move out so that the aid coming in there can be given to the Georgian people by the people who sent it and not by the people who just over ran their country and have also signed an agreement that they would not be there in any case. I stand by that statement and it is fairly straight forward and from a common sense perspective.

I have no doubt that the Russians are aiding the people in the Provinces, and have not said or implied that they are not...and hope they continue to do so.

Now, having responded civilly to your rather uncivil assertions and evened that playing field, if you would like to continue via PM, that would be fine with me.

Gentelmen, SV & JH, please continue your discussion via PM. Thank you.

bd popeye super moderator

Aye Aye Skipper!

Back to Topic.

Todays news is that the US navy is unloading at the Southern Georgian port of Batumi, thus avoiding contact witht he Russians in Poti.

Other news is that an Oil Train running out of Baku has hit a mine on the track outside of Gori. Georgians are claiming sabotage, whilst Russia is calling it a Georgian provocation.



This link is probably as good as any other.

Not too loing after a train exploded near Gori...an arms depot and ammo dump in one of the Russian controlled Provinces exploded. Hmmm. Seems too coincidental...but perhaps it just happened that way.

Here is more info and pics about the USS McFaul, Batumi and Poti:

At the port of Poti, where the Russians anticpated the arrival of US warships, a group of armored personnel carriers (APCs) and four tanks had blocked the bridge into Poti, and Russian forces had excavated trenches and set up mortars facing the city. Another group of APCs and trucks were positioned in a nearby wooded area. Georgian civilians from Poti protested at the roadblock. This occured as elsewhere in Georgia the Russians had already compelted their general withdrawal and many of their tanks and personnel were exiting the Province of South Ossetia and entering Russia proper. <br />


Meanwhile, 80 kilometers (55 miles) south of the port of Poti, at the Georgian port of Batumi, the US simply avoided the confrontation when the first U.S. warship, the guided missle and AEGIS detroyer, USS McFaul docked there instead to bring aid to Georgia on Sunday, August 24, 2008. The arrival is a strong gesture of support for the ex-Soviet republic in its conflict with Russia.

USS McFaul is loaded with humanitarian aid including beds and food for the tens of thousands displaced by the confrontation that erupted on Aug 7-8 over Georgia's breakaway South Ossetia region.

Two more US warships, and three NATO warships are also en route to deliver significant humanitarian aid and will arrive within the next day or two, presumably also at Batumi. With six warships in the area, two of them AEGIS warships, and one o fthe others, the USS Mt. Whitney being the flagship of the US 6th fleet, the US Navy and NATO are making a significant commitment and sending a strong message of support to Georgia and a strong message of resolve to Moscow.

The russians really needs more T90, thier taks seems to be all antiqued T62 and T72? I don't see any T80 or even T90? But then again maybe more modern tanks are stations somewere else, wonder how many modern armors the russian army really have? I mean mostly armors produced after sovjet collapse.

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Aug. 25 (Bloomberg) --Both houses of Russia's parliament unanimously called on President Dmitry Medvedev to recognize the independence of two breakaway Georgian regions that sparked Russia's first foreign military incursion since the Soviet era. [...]

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Now things are going fast, still we'll have to wait and see what Medwedjew does. Even though western countries are already reacting strong to that, I don't think much more than words will come from this.
It'll intensify the crises in the short run, but somehow I exspect it'll cool down in the long run.
Once we get past that hot phase, and if Medwedjew actually recognizes them, I believe, however, that Georgia will integrade with the West much faster; economicly and militarily. Because then there's nothing left holding it back.

yehe said:

The russians really needs more T90, thier taks seems to be all antiqued T62 and T72? I don't see any T80 or even T90? But then again maybe more modern tanks are stations somewere else, wonder how many modern armors the russian army really have? I mean mostly armors produced after sovjet collapse.

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There are few pix of a T-72 version (T-72BM?) which has K-5 ERA just like the early T-90



As for the T-62's they have several hundred of them. Apparently they were used once the fighting stopped for patrolling the checkpoints