Russia claimed north pole

I dont think the russian flag posture is an attempt to make the continental self claim as pararrel to claim land, but mere propaganda act (there are ellections comming), wich has been inturpted as such by the traditionally anti-russian western media.

Gollevainen said:

I dont think the russian flag posture is an attempt to make the continental self claim as pararrel to claim land, but mere propaganda act (there are ellections comming), wich has been inturpted as such by the traditionally anti-russian western media.

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I agree 100%. Political posturing to help out in the next elections. Sort of a "We spit in the West's eye", kind of move to show that the Putin administration is "strong" and "resolute" to its electorate.

Jeff Head said:

But this pre-supposs that it is a land mass we are talking about. It is not. It is a frozen part of the Arctic Ocean. That is why I said that it is not legitimate as far as their claiming it to be part of their soverign territory. If you allow this...where does it stop? Claiming open ocean sea-lanes?

As I said, I expect not too much to come of it. The Russians know this...but it makes for good political consumption for the voters and party mechanisms.

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No Jeff, these protocols are specific to the Arctic, just as Specific protocols exist for the Antarctic. If the ridge link is proved, then the territory is Russian in accordance with agreements that all the Arctic bordering nations have signed and which the UN has ratified.

SampanViking said:

No Jeff, these protocols are specific to the Arctic, just as Specific protocols exist for the Antarctic. If the ridge link is proved, then the territory is Russian in accordance with agreements that all the Arctic bordering nations have signed and which the UN has ratified.

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Do you have a link to the specific language? I am very suspicious that the US would agree to such protocols...the precedent could be devestating in other areas once it was established.

Reading up on it myself, apparently, under international law, no country owns the North Pole. Instead, the five surrounding Arctic states, Russia, the US, Canada, Norway and Denmark (via Greenland), are limited to a 200-mile economic zone around their coasts.

According to Russia's they now have announced the "sensational news" that the Lomonosov ridge was linked to Russian Federation territory, boosting Russia's claim over the oil-and-gas rich triangle. The territory contained 10bn tonnes of gas and oil deposits, the scientists said.

Russia's Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper celebrated the discovery by printing a large map of the North Pole. It showed the new "addition" to Russia - the size of France, Germany and Italy combined - under a white, blue and red Russian flag.

Many scientists doubt whether Russia's latest Arctic grab stood up to scrutiny.

To extend a zone, a state has to prove that the structure of the continental shelf is similar to the geological structure within its territory. Under the current UN convention on the laws of the sea, no country's shelf extends to the North Pole. Instead, the International Seabed Authority administers the area around the pole as an international area.

"Frankly I think it's a little bit strange," Sergey Priamikov, the international co-operation director of Russia's Arctic and Antarctic Research Institute in St Petersburg, told the Guardian. "Canada could make exactly the same claim. The Canadians could say that the Lomonosov ridge is part of the Canadian shelf, which means Russia should in fact belong to Canada, together with the whole of Eurasia."

I do not think it will stand the light of day. Again, IMHO, it is a political effort...and also one to help bolster more claims for them to the resources. No chance anyone will recognize any Russian soveriegnty there.

I don't take it all that seriously honestly, especially when they say stuff like this:

It's like putting a flag on the moon.

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Source:

I think the whole idea of claiming the North Pole is just ridiculous.

It's bloody cold up there, I don't get it. Why not claim Denmark instead, at least it's a bit warmer?

Jeff Head said:

But this pre-supposs that it is a land mass we are talking about. It is not. It is a frozen part of the Arctic Ocean. That is why I said that it is not legitimate as far as their claiming it to be part of their soverign territory. If you allow this...where does it stop? Claiming open ocean sea-lanes?

As I said, I expect not too much to come of it. The Russians know this...but it makes for good political consumption for the voters and party mechanisms.

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No it doesn't. Continental shelf claims are legitimate under international maritime law, though less in use these days. And the claim is to the part of the Arctic Ocean being not sovereign territory as you keep claiming, but territorial waters, a very different animal, and that is why your concerns about claiming sea lanes is unfounded - they are subjected to certain limitations such as innocent passage.

And in answer to later question poised - this is all very serious, and Canada and Denmark have made competing claims based on the ridge features such as Lomonosov Ridge and Mendeleev Ridge are extention of their continental shelves.

You are correct, however, that the flag is a gesture of the claim, and carries little to no weight in and of itself (we can't go and plant a flag in the Marianas Trench and expect that to be legitimate), the strength lies in the claim itself. There certainly is a domestic political dimension, and probably has an eye on elections - but expedition itself had been in planning for some time, and suggested even earlier. United Russia is so strong anyway such tricks really aren't necessary.

It could have something to do with Chilingarov himself, though.

planeman said:

It's bloody cold up there, I don't get it. Why not claim Denmark instead, at least it's a bit warmer?

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Love to, but it's already claimed.

By some nation called Denmark, apparently.

As for as I know, unlike the South Pole, there is no "land" in the North Pole, just ice. Russia is planting her flag on the sea floor and not on floating piece of ice, which might eventually melt if you believe in global warming.

Anyways... Russia extending is territorial claim based on continental shelf extensions isn't that much different than, say, China's own territorial claims.

Troika said:

No it doesn't. Continental shelf claims are legitimate under international maritime law, though less in use these days. And the claim is to the part of the Arctic Ocean being not sovereign territory as you keep claiming, but territorial waters, a very different animal, and that is why your concerns about claiming sea lanes is unfounded - they are subjected to certain limitations such as innocent passage.

And in answer to later question poised - this is all very serious, and Canada and Denmark have made competing claims based on the ridge features such as Lomonosov Ridge and Mendeleev Ridge are extention of their continental shelves.

You are correct, however, that the flag is a gesture of the claim, and carries little to no weight in and of itself (we can't go and plant a flag in the Marianas Trench and expect that to be legitimate), the strength lies in the claim itself. There certainly is a domestic political dimension, and probably has an eye on elections - but expedition itself had been in planning for some time, and suggested even earlier.

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As I said in a later post, having read up on it somewhat now myself, apparently, under international law, no country owns the North Pole. Instead, the five surrounding Arctic states, Russia, the US, Canada, Norway and Denmark (via Greenland), are limited to a 200-mile economic zone around their coasts.

According to Russia, they now have announced the "sensational news" that the Lomonosov ridge was linked to Russian Federation territory, boosting Russia's claim over the oil-and-gas rich triangle. The territory contains 10bn tonnes of gas and oil deposits, the scientists said.

Russia's Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper celebrated the discovery by printing a large map of the North Pole. It showed the new "addition" to Russia - the size of France, Germany and Italy combined - under a white, blue and red Russian flag.

Many scientists doubt whether Russia's latest Arctic grab will stand up to scrutiny...and I do too.

To extend a zone, a state has to prove that the structure of the continental shelf is similar to the geological structure within its territory. Under the current UN convention on the laws of the sea, no country's shelf extends to the North Pole. Instead, the International Seabed Authority administers the area around the pole as an international area.

"Frankly I think it's a little bit strange," Sergey Priamikov, the international co-operation director of Russia's Arctic and Antarctic Research Institute in St Petersburg, told the Guardian. "Canada could make exactly the same claim. The Canadians could say that the Lomonosov ridge is part of the Canadian shelf, which means Russia should in fact belong to Canada, together with the whole of Eurasia."

I do not think it will stand the light of day. Again, IMHO, it is a political effort...and just a round about way to bolster more Russian claims to the resources.

We could give Belgium o the Russians as trade for this territory? It sounds like a fair swap to me.