Russia claimed north pole

What do you guys think about russia claiming the north pole?

Is it legal?
Why now when submersible tech is available decades ago?

Canada and other countries around the arctic circle denounced the move. Will this action contribute to growing tension with NATO?

It certainly can't help relations between Russia and NATO. I don't see a direct threat to NATO, nor is any intended I believe, but with Russia claiming as effectively territorial waters beyond the 12 mile teritorial limit and the 200 mile economic limit to include the continental shelf, and therefore, practically half of the Arctic Ocean, such a bold claim and any subsequent efforts to enforce it are going to cause tensions.

Personally, as long as Russia doesn't become aggressive outside of the areas it is laying claim to, I am not seriously concerned, although still somewhat wary. The US will not take this lying down, and I suspect Norway and Denmark will take whatever measures they find they are capable of to preserve their own claims. Canada apparently is going to build a new base at Resolute on Cornwallis Island, in the middle of the North-West Passage, the right place for it, but it appears that it will feature little in the way of a meaningful military presence, probably just a glorified token presence.

Autumn Child said:

What do you guys think about russia claiming the north pole?

Is it legal?
Why now when submersible tech is available decades ago?

Canada and other countries around the arctic circle denounced the move. Will this action contribute to growing tension with NATO?

Click to expand...

It is legal, but not official. No country has recognized Russia's claim. In any case, future oil exploration in the area will most likely be a joint effort involving multiple nations, and I don't think Russia will want a war over the North Pole. Tension? No, unless Russia plants a military base there.

The US claims space as their domain. Or like the guy who's selling property on the moon, Mars, and other planets. There's is a loophole in the UN charter about that but can he claim land he's never been to himself?

The claim has its legimacy in the international martime law, and US and Canada can IMO stop whining. Wheter it gives Russians advantage or not, is another thing, but no law, expecially international one shouldn't be bypassed by simple national chauvinism.

The flag thing critisism by US, is BS and hyppocracy in its biggest form, Its bit bigger thing to plant that into face of the moon than in some mirky arctic depths.

And dont forget that the MIR-submersibles that made the whole thing possiple are..krhm....finnish desing and build

Gollevainen said:

The claim has its legimacy in the international martime law, and US and Canada can IMO stop whining. Wheter it gives Russians advantage or not, is another thing, but no law, expecially international one shouldn't be bypassed by simple national chauvinism.

The flag thing critisism by US, is BS and hyppocracy in its biggest form, Its bit bigger thing to plant that into face of the moon than in some mirky arctic depths.

And dont forget that the MIR-submersibles that made the whole thing possiple are..krhm....finnish desing and build

Click to expand...

I do not believe the claim has any legitmacy in terms of claiming the territoy as their own soveriegn territory. It is just posturing by Putin and an effort to try and help secure more natural resources for mother Russia (which is understandable) though he knows the territorial claim will not be recognized or honored. I expect nothing to come of it.

...and trying to compare it to the landing on the moon is a little off base, IMHO. Planting a flag at the landing site does not mean claiming it as soveriegn US territory. The US has never attempted to or implied that it officially claims the moon...or space for that matter...as opposed to this "official" claim by Russia.

The plaque on Apollo 11's lander actually states the following:

"Here men from the planet earth first set foot on the moon, July 1969, A.D. We came in peace for all mankid."

A picture of the entire globe is displayed. The United States is not even mentioned other than in the title of the President, who also signed the plaque.

Anyhow, I see this claim to the North Pole as more for internal political consumption than anything else.

Last year the US was at the Pole with this show of military presence...no claims were made however...just a low key message.

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The claim is certianly legitimate in so far that Russia certainly has the right to make it.

There are protocols about ownership of the Continental shelf and it all hinges on whether the land is contiguous (ie directly connected to the Russian Continental shelf) If so, then the claim is valid. This is why the confirmation about the existance and full conectivity of this new ridge is paramount.

There is a UN committe that meet irregularly to consider aspects of Arctic territorial claims and protocols as and when such questions arise and it is due to sit in 2009 in order to consider the Russain claim.

The reason why this has become an issue now is that warmer climatic conditions have enabled nations to send their ships and surveyors into the region to prospect for resources and to try to establish links to expand their territory in the Arctic.

Rest assured that the US, Canada, Denmark and Norway are all looking in their patch as well.

I think the claim is also questionable. Normally when one claims territory, it has to be land. The Arctic isn't land, it's frozen water - as far as I know that doesn't qualify. Besides people have already put flags up on the North Pole.

As to below the North Pole, I don't think you can claim a seabed. Every country gets its EEZ, but that's pretty much it. EEZs can be disputed, but dropping flags won't change much.

To be quite honest I think it's a waste of time. I doubt very much the committee that regulates this area of the world will be influenced by it, so it is pretty much a PR exercise - which is only going to annoy other countries. Indeed I wonder if Russia knows this and did it anyway. Sort of a "look at me - we can do what we like" routine. Ironic given Russia is all for accusing other countries of "causing trouble".

If the ridge link is proven, then in accordance with the protocols the claim is valid and will be recognised under International Law.

All the Arctic bordering nations were in favour of these conditions when they were agreed during the 50's. Nobody wanted to pass up the prospect of a future bonanza. I guess nobody anticipated that the opportunity would come sooner rather than later.

SampanViking said:

The claim is certianly legitimate in so far that Russia certainly has the right to make it.

There are protocols about ownership of the Continental shelf and it all hinges on whether the land is contiguous (ie directly connected to the Russian Continental shelf) If so, then the claim is valid. This is why the confirmation about the existance and full conectivity of this new ridge is paramount..

Click to expand...

But this pre-supposs that it is a land mass we are talking about. It is not. It is a frozen part of the Arctic Ocean. That is why I said that it is not legitimate as far as their claiming it to be part of their soverign territory. If you allow this...where does it stop? Claiming open ocean sea-lanes?

As I said, I expect not too much to come of it. The Russians know this...but it makes for good political consumption for the voters and party mechanisms.