"Red line" on Taiwan issue

Typhoon said:

If United States hasn't backed up Taiwan from the begining, there's simply no Taiwan problem. Even today, it is the Uncle Sams to allow CSB to step on the red line. CSB doesn't have any gut to step on the red line without the backup. The backup is there even both Taiwan and Uncle Sames don't want to say it explicitly this tme. China just pretends they didn't see it.

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Well, I was wrong. China did see it. Today China "urged" US to stick to the their commitment on Taiwan question. Why has US repeatedly ignored its commitment to Taiwan question? even has been selling arms to Taiwan based on its domestic "Taiwan Relation Act"?

It is because, as I said before, China doesn't have the muscle. China doesn't have the muscle to have a "Hawaii Relation Act" to tell people in Hawaii people to fight for their own independence. Hawaii is even not culturally or historically related to United States as the way Taiwan related to China. How could US stand between Taiwan and China?



BEIJING, Feb. 28 (Xinhuanet) -- China on Tuesday urged the United States to stick to the commitments on Taiwan question and be aware of the seriousness and harm of secessionist activities in Taiwan.

The United States should take substantial efforts to oppose "Taiwan independence" and not send any wrong signal to Taiwan secessionists, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said at a press conference.

"We have noticed that the spokesman for U.S. government reaffirmed that the United States adheres to the one-China policy and opposes 'Taiwan independence'," Liu said.

"I hope the United States can make joint efforts with us in safeguarding China-U.S. relations and the peace and stability across the Taiwan Straits," Liu said. Enditem

CSB stepping on red line could prove devastating to the worldwide electronics industry, not to mention the stability in Asia. Today Electronic Engineering Times ("EETimes", the largest electronic industry weekly newspaper in US, in case you don't know) shows the serious concern on the latest happening in Taiwan. It also mentions the issue of the (US) domestic "Taiwan Relations Act":



SAN JOSE, Calif. — Tensions are running high again between Beijing and Taipei — a series of events that could rattle the worldwide electronics supply chain.
Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian generated some sparks by recently abolishing the island’s National Unification Council and guidelines for working towards eventual reunification with China, according to reports.

In response, Chinese President Hu Jintao on Tuesday (Feb. 28) warned Taiwan that it was taking a "dangerous step" by scrapping the council, according to reports.

Chen, according to Hu, is taking steps towards a disastrous plan of declaring independence for Taiwan. Even Taiwan’s business leaders have been critical of Chen’s policies, which are perceived as creating some instability in the region.

Any conflict in the region would be disastrous for China, Taiwan and the United States. In total, Taiwan has poured up to $100 billion into China since the late 1980s. Acer, Hon Hai, TSMC and other major electronics companies in Taiwan have set up plants in China.

In 1949, China and Taiwan split after the Nationalists lost a civil war to the communists. At the time, the Nationalists fled to Taiwan. Since then, China has viewed Taiwan as a renegade province.

China has also vowed to attack Taiwan — if the island declares independence. China has at least 700 ballistic missiles targeting the island.

The United States has also vowed to protect Taiwan in the event of an attack. On March 29, 1979, Congress also passed the Taiwan Relations Act, establishing a new relationship with Taiwan following U.S. recognition of the People's Republic of China.

Hawaii isn't composed of a population that fled the slaughter of a brutal band of communist thugs taking over the mainland US. To say that the Taiwanese should be forced to give up freedom, democracy, and live under the rule of a corrupt and all to often inhumane communist regime is to show zero regards to their basic human rights. They shouldn't be sacrificed just to satisfy one of Beijing's ego trips.I prefer the status quo of Taiwan and a peaceful reunification in the future. Not attacking 25+million chinese on Taiwan, and killing alot to overthrow their democracy for a authoritarian government. I'm sure vinelee will flame me because he's an idiot but that my 2 cents.

this coming from an American....ironic.

by the way, perhaps the reason why I "flame" you is because you, who was most likely brainwashed during the Cold War era and incorrigibly steeped in American propaganda preaching the moral superiority of the US against the Godless Commies, reeks the type of blind political naivete that is absolutely sickening.

Ironic indeed. E Vigil, next time you make such bold statements, back them up, mind you?

I could say the same thing about the US government and I wouldn't be lying. But I will refrain myself from flamming.

EternalVigil said:

Hawaii isn't composed of a population that fled the slaughter of a brutal band of communist thugs taking over the mainland US. To say that the Taiwanese should be forced to give up freedom, democracy, and live under the rule of a corrupt and all to often inhumane communist regime is to show zero regards to their basic human rights. They shouldn't be sacrificed just to satisfy one of Beijing's ego trips.I prefer the status quo of Taiwan and a peaceful reunification in the future. Not attacking 25+million chinese on Taiwan, and killing alot to overthrow their democracy for a authoritarian government. I'm sure vicelee will flame me because he's an idiot but that my 2 cents.

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Of course, God gave a moral mandate to America. That's why it can do no wrong -- the ends always justifies the means, including any means.

Those 1,000,000 civilians slaughtered during the forced annexation of the Philippines must be so proud of the freedom America gave their people.


Anyway, back to topic:

What do you think is the red line, then? I personally think this is very close to the red line. In fact, any tinkering with the constitution to remove the formal claim over all of China would cross the red line. That includes removing the name "Republic of China." Calling a referendum on independence would also be a red line.

Becasue of the interesting analoge between China-Taiwan and US-Hawaii and, instead of bashing any country, I suggest anyone before he got "2 cents opinion" should click around the internet, especially click around Hawaii because Hawaii got such interesting history.

After you have clicked around, you may share with us why US refused to join Great Britain and France to recognize Hawaii as an independent Kingdom in 1843? what happened to Queen Liliuokalani of Hawaii Kingdom in 1893? Who founded "Republic of Hawaii" in 1894 and what happened then? Why US President McKinley decleared Hawaii under US sovereignty in 1898? And, Up to today, how many nations in this world has formally recognized Hawaii as a part of US territory? I bet the last one may be the most interesting question to find the answer.

If you allow me, my humble opinion is China-Taiwan relation is much simpler than that of US-Hawaii, and it shouldn't be any problem at all. All I can think is: "it becomes a problem simply because China lacks the muscle."

Chairman Mao said "All the political powers are coming from the gun barrels". Chinese should admit it that, instead of them, only Americans are the true good students of the "Thoughts of Chairman Mao."

Gollevainen said:

A word About Hawaiji and the one mentioning gets warning, ARE WE BEEING CLEAR ENNOUGH????
Back to the topic or thread gets to be closed!!

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Golly: We are talking about Taiwan red line here. You are certainly welcomed to contribute any of your thoughts if you have one. If you don't agree with the China-Taiwan and US-Hawaii analogy. Just say it and tell us why you don't agree. That's what this "forum" for.

By the way, you have to be polite and don't ever call other people "BS". We have been keeping on losing forum members to post here because people are using abusive language. Anyone, no matter he is moderator or not, uses that word should wash his mouth with soap. Remember, "Club Room" is the place to make friends, not the place to call others "BS", and definitely not the place for moderator (or anyone else) to masturbate himself!