Racism in Australia

texx1 said:

You can be offended , but you can't kill others for it especially in a secular society. It just empowers the other side. The moment you start killing in the name of any religion, it becomes extremism.

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Sure, but that doesn't mean those who go out of their way to insult other cultures should go unpunished.

That's the problem with the French. They continue to condone the actions of those who keep insulting Muslims and their religion, all the while having a large, disenfranchised Muslim population in their midst. French Muslims essentially feel powerless to stop the humiliation of their cultural identity.

solarz said:

Sure, but that doesn't mean those who go out of their way to insult other cultures should go unpunished.

That's the problem with the French. They continue to condone the actions of those who keep insulting Muslims and their religion, all the while having a large, disenfranchised Muslim population in their midst. French Muslims essentially feel powerless to stop the humiliation of their cultural identity.

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The problem has always been how do you balance freedom of speech with Muslim's religious dogma in France. As far as I know, there are no tenets in other religions that forbid the drawing of their idols. Other religions and their figures are also subjected to derision, jokes and cartoons in many secular countries. But their worshipers don't react violently.

It is problematic to design a rule specifically to protect and benefit a singular group of people. Others would view that as a form of inequity as well as curtailment of their rights. Eventually, it leads to backlash and counter actions like the Draw Mohammed Day in US after US Muslims calling for South Park boycott.

As for the enfranchisement of Muslim in France, it's more of how do a country integrate a large influx of migrants problem. Since many migrants happen to be Muslim, it just makes more complex.

texx1 said:

The problem has always been how do you balance freedom of speech with Muslim's religious dogma in France. As far as I know, there are no tenets in other religions that forbid the drawing of their idols. Other religions and their figures are also subjected to derision, jokes and cartoons in many secular countries. But their worshipers don't react violently.

It is problematic to design a rule specifically to protect and benefit a singular group of people. Others would view that as a form of inequity as well as curtailment of their rights. Eventually, it leads to backlash and counter actions like the Draw Mohammed Day in US after US Muslims calling for South Park boycott.

As for the enfranchisement of Muslim in French, it's more of how do a country integrate a large influx of migrants problem. Since many migrants happen to be Muslim, it just makes more complex.

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It's not really problematic at all, all it takes is mutual respect.

I'm no muslim, but I highly doubt they get rabidly violent over every drawing of Mohammed. I suspect only those drawings explicitly designed to insult them would get the kind of extremism we saw in France.

A government can easily introduce legislations, or even use existing legislations, to punish such attempts at race baiting. Enforcement can occur at many levels such as workplace acts, anti-discriminatory acts, etc. It doesn't always have to be criminal. Impose fines on publications that propagate incendiary content.

The problem isn't that it's difficult, it's that there's no incentive for Western politicians to do so. After 9/11, Muslims are easy targets for xenophobia. They are convenient scapegoats for populist politicians to rally their support around. At the same time, Muslims, as a group, are not influential enough to reward politicians who support their causes.

After COVID-19, I can easily see the same thing happening to the Chinese people. In fact, the video in the OP shows that this is already happening in Australia.

This is not bad for China. China needs to make it hotter, using local media to let everyone in China know about this.

solarz said:

It's not really problematic at all, all it takes is mutual respect.

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The actual policy is more of an accommodation which carries costs. Is the french non-Muslim majority willing to bear such costs?

solarz said:

I'm no muslim, but I highly doubt they get rabidly violent over every drawing of Mohammed. I suspect only those drawings explicitly designed to insult them would get the kind of extremism we saw in France.

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One can't justify killing someone just because some skinhead baited you. You would alienate a large segment of population once you started to use violence. Even those who wanted support your view will get dismissed as violence enablers. Those extremists forced Macron's hand.

solarz said:

A government can easily introduce legislations, or even use existing legislations, to punish such attempts at race baiting. Enforcement can occur at many levels such as workplace acts, anti-discriminatory acts, etc. It doesn't always have to be criminal. Impose fines on publications that propagate incendiary content.

The problem isn't that it's difficult, it's that there's no incentive for Western politicians to do so. After 9/11, Muslims are easy targets for xenophobia. They are convenient scapegoats for populist politicians to rally their support around. At the same time, Muslims, as a group, are not influential enough to reward politicians who support their causes.

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That's just the sad reality though. Unless under authoritarianism, there is no incentive because no politicians would ask their own supporters to bear the cost of a policy that could be viewed as solely benefiting the others. Even those under authoritarianism, the policy would ultimately fail just like how USSR's ethic policy (emphasizing ethic difference) played a role in its own demise.

This perhaps is politically incorrect, but xenophobia has always been an inherent part of human nature. Most of us are somewhat wary of things foreign, unknown and different, it's a natural defense mechanism against competition. You can't legislate out human nature, you can suppress for a time but it will eventually turn into resentment.

When the time is good, people are willing to make accommodations for the others. However, the world economy is now in a tough shape, people are no longer willing to make concessions. It's just that simple.

solarz said:

After COVID-19, I can easily see the same thing happening to the Chinese people. In fact, the video in the OP shows that this is already happening in Australia.

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Chinese people have always been discriminated against both overtly and covertly since Qing lost the first opium war. The only time that Chinese people got some actual respect was right after the Korean war. Most people respect and value strength. This is also the reason why many Chinese younger generations want PRC to show some strength.

The funny thing is white people say yellowface is fine, saying racist things about Chinese is fine because it's freedom of speech and it's just satire (it's just a joke, relax!). But imagine if Asians pull a whiteface and make a racist video of white people, an Asian plays a white guy living in Alabama who has incest with all his siblings. I bet you white people will go batsh*t crazy and start assaulting Asians like how they attacked Asians because of covid in Aussie, USA, Canada, France as we see in the news. Africans in Africa attack Chinese businessmen, do Chinese people attack Africans on the streets? White people say racist things about Asians, do Asians attack white people on the streets?

And of course in France, Middle East and North African immigrants are attacking Asians over covid. I guess they were right when they said "We love the Chinese people very much, we just don't like the Chinese government that's all".

texx1 said:

The actual policy is more of an accommodation which carries costs. Is the french non-Muslim majority willing to bear such costs?

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What cost is that? The ability to live in a safe and harmonious society?

This is no accommodation, it is simply common decency. There is no cost, it is simply the pretext of the ruling class.

solarz said:

What cost is that? The ability to live in a safe and harmonious society?

This is no accommodation, it is simply common decency. There is no cost, it is simply the pretext of the ruling class.

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The political cost of appeasing Muslim religious extremism. France officially is not a Muslim country. You can't bow down to fanatics intending to use violence to create "parallel societies" in a secular country as it will eventually lead to separatism. Once you give in, other groups would want similar treatments using the same arguments and same methods. Moderate Muslim in France is still allowed.

texx1 said:

The political cost of appeasing Muslim religious extremism. France officially is not a Muslim country. You can't bow down to fanatics intending to use violence to create "parallel societies" in a secular country as it will eventually lead to separatism. Once you give in, other groups would want similar treatments using the same arguments and same methods. Moderate Muslim in France is still allowed.

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Yeah, good job repeating all the trigger words from the western media.

Guess what, we have some very stark case studies right before us. China built re-education camps to de-radicalize extremists and at the same time passed legislations outlawing publications that insult other religions. Did China "appease" religious extremism, or "bow down" to fanatics? I don't think so.

The western narrative is a false dichotomy. Western politicians need an enemy in order to distract the population from the reality of their exploitation. The narrative you repeated above is designed to perpetuate this state of tension between Muslims and non-Muslims, to the ultimate benefit of the ruling class.

In the West, insulting Blacks or South Asians, gets you called a racist, and you can face boycotts. Insulting Jews, will get you called an anti-Semite and you can face boycotts, and possible jail-time. Insulting Koreans can also get you called a racist, but no other serious consequences. But insult Chinese, then you are a hero. You're now 'standing up' to Communist China!

Australia always had a strong Sino-phobic undercurrent long before the Scott Morrison regime. When Scott Morrison came to power, he gives the green-light for Sinophobia, and everything is coming out now. Then you have other anti-Chinese Asians like traitor Chinese, and Indians joining in on the hate.

I have seen many anti-Chinese Australians justify hate on China on two popular reasons:
1) China is buying up property and practically taking over Australia
2) China is a threat for Australia in the region

Well for (1) Chinese people buying up property in Australia is indeed driving up property prices. But it is not a problem limited to Chinese people. There are Jews, Indians, Japanese, Europeans, Brits, and Americans buying up property in Australia. All of them are contributing to the property price hike. But just like the same logic of the African debt trap to China, not the IMF. China and Chinese gets 100% of the blame. Its easy, convenient, and solves nothing of Australia's problem.

For (2) China never used the PLAN to threaten Australia. China never talked about fighting Australia in some hypothetical war. It is Australia that sent its RAN to anti-China exercises. Its Australia that has the ASPI that continuously fans the flames of wars against China. Its Australia that sent troops overseas to fight and kill other non-Australians. Its the Australian SAS that committed real and documented executions of foreign civilians. So who is Australia to call China a threat?

I believe all these punishment Australia is getting from China is a good thing. There are many good people in Australia who are not hateful of China. But there is still a majority of anti-China racist Australians in the country to drive the nation to do things it is doing now. Its a majoritarian democracy after-all. So, Australia just have to be punished. It will never be repentant. Australia still celebrates its imperialist past like ANZAC day, etc. Now, China has the economic leverage against Australia, and it needs to be used to its full potential. Australia needs to be reduced into a weaker power in Oceania. Australia only understands pain, so it needs to go through pain to come to its sense.