QTS-11 OICW. 5.8 mm Heavy and 20 mm Air Burst.

Insignius

Junior Member
To make OICW actually viable, powered armour or exoskeleton, as well as completely new explosive chemical (try antimatter) and the full setup be self-contained within a 20-30mm projectile will be required.

Actually, fully armored exoskeletons Space Marines style will make OICWs obsolete, not viable.

Try taking a bunch of high speed tungsten balls to your face or even just your arms and see what happens to your continued combat ability. Body armor cannot protect everything and those fashionable high-speed-low-drag helmets with their ear-piece cutouts that everybody loves so much these days protect worse against fragments than WWI Stahlhelmets.

QTS-11's concept of giving more soldiers per squad a basic airburst capability is a very good idea. The volume of fire and the increase in opportunities to use those against covered enemies makes up its smaller caliber more than enough.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
To make OICW actually viable, powered armour or exoskeleton, as well as completely new explosive chemical (try antimatter) and the full setup be self-contained within a 20-30mm projectile will be required.
Normally I would agree to a degree but as 1 gram of antimatter would have a yield of 1 kiloton of explosive. Even Master chief would have a hard time living through that impact.

Actually, fully armored exoskeletons Space Marines style will make OICWs obsolete, not viable.

Try taking a bunch of high speed tungsten balls to your face or even just your arms and see what happens to your continued combat ability. Body armor cannot protect everything and those fashionable high-speed-low-drag helmets with their ear-piece cutouts that everybody loves so much these days protect worse against fragments than WWI Stahlhelmets.

QTS-11's concept of giving more soldiers per squad a basic airburst capability is a very good idea. The volume of fire and the increase in opportunities to use those against covered enemies makes up its smaller caliber more than enough.
The OICW concept’s biggest problem is that you are trying to create a weapon that has the fire power of two weapons well only paying the weight of one. It’s too heavy a weapon to expensive a weapon to field in numbers. It’s also to under powered. The aim of trying to compact a highly effective Airburst into a 20mm shell that is fast enough to retain a longer range well soft enough that it can be shouldered. It’s Contradictory. It comprises to much. Besides if you can R&D a 20mm airburst shell for said weapon you can port that into a 35mm, 37mm or 40mm Grenade. The same caliber of launchers that are already plentiful.
 

el pueblo unido

Junior Member
Registered Member
Normally I would agree to a degree but as 1 gram of antimatter would have a yield of 1 kiloton of explosive. Even Master chief would have a hard time living through that impact.


The OICW concept’s biggest problem is that you are trying to create a weapon that has the fire power of two weapons well only paying the weight of one. It’s too heavy a weapon to expensive a weapon to field in numbers. It’s also to under powered. The aim of trying to compact a highly effective Airburst into a 20mm shell that is fast enough to retain a longer range well soft enough that it can be shouldered. It’s Contradictory. It comprises to much. Besides if you can R&D a 20mm airburst shell for said weapon you can port that into a 35mm, 37mm or 40mm Grenade. The same caliber of launchers that are already plentiful.
I always thought it's a lot more reasonable for such weaponry to be fitted onto all terrain UGV that can follow a squad around the frontline and can carry ammo plus providing suppressing fire, that can also be air dropped with paratroopers swiftly, or to be outfitted with various models of weaponry to adapt to different combat situation, all while being cheaply made and very expendable
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I always thought it's a lot more reasonable for such weaponry to be fitted onto all terrain UGV that can follow a squad around the frontline and can carry ammo plus providing suppressing fire, that can also be air dropped with paratroopers swiftly, or to be outfitted with various models of weaponry to adapt to different combat situation, all while being cheaply made and very expendable
The problem is that UGV lack the mobility of infantry and the ease of control. I mean yeah you can drive it about but the OICW was optimized for infantry in Mount and vs forces in defile. If fighting in such one may find themselves in a building which isn’t the best place for a UGV.
The Airburst mode is meant to defeat forces under cover. The systems architecture of range finder, programming the round with range to time the Bursts so the shell has passed a door/window or is over the heads of its intended victims so it rains fragments on them.

Besides if you go that route why do the complex R&D? Just mount a Heavy MG, AGL or light auto cannon with airburst shells? Something like the M230LF which is already appearing on Utility vehicles like JLTV.

Both the US and ROK early on had AGL versions the Advanced Crew Served Weapon concept would have used the same or a beefed up versions of the OICW rounds in a belt feed with the same range finding capabilities. But in both cases they were canceled for similar reasons to the failure of Objective Individual Combat Weapons. Issues of lack of payload, significantly reduced suppressive capacity due to low rate of fire, small capacity of ammunition, heavy weight and high costs. the ROK entirely scrapped it’s the US had started earlier and actually had prototypes in trails. They were again canceled with a 12.7x99mm derivative lasting longer until it to was scrapped as to get the control it had a exceptionally slow rate of fire.
That said it’s not to say it’s a total dead end. Northrop Grumman has offered from time to time a derivative of the Bushmaster canon packing the XM25’s shells but mounted as a replacement for a .50 cal in M60 tank overhauls.
Cost on a product like OICW and ACSW is going to be based on numbers built. If it goes into mass production then the R&D cost drops. If it fails to do so then the cost is high. The specialized nature of the Airburst shell means a higher than average cost vs a dumb round. I mean if you want a low cost system I recommend following the architecture of the Neopup where it’s a weapon firing 20mm shells that are literally just 20mm naval shells crammed in a necked out 14.5mm round.
 

drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
Normally I would agree to a degree but as 1 gram of antimatter would have a yield of 1 kiloton of explosive. Even Master chief would have a hard time living through that impact.


The OICW concept’s biggest problem is that you are trying to create a weapon that has the fire power of two weapons well only paying the weight of one. It’s too heavy a weapon to expensive a weapon to field in numbers. It’s also to under powered. The aim of trying to compact a highly effective Airburst into a 20mm shell that is fast enough to retain a longer range well soft enough that it can be shouldered. It’s Contradictory. It comprises to much. Besides if you can R&D a 20mm airburst shell for said weapon you can port that into a 35mm, 37mm or 40mm Grenade. The same caliber of launchers that are already plentiful.
yes you make very good points, and eventually we will circle back to dividing up those responsibilities amongst the riflemen of a squad, or platoon fire support.
 

kriss

Junior Member
Registered Member
Besides if you can R&D a 20mm airburst shell for said weapon you can port that into a 35mm, 37mm or 40mm Grenade. The same caliber of launchers that are already plentiful.
Though under the same recoil a shoulder could handle, a 20mm shell could be propelled further.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Actually, fully armored exoskeletons Space Marines style will make OICWs obsolete, not viable.

Try taking a bunch of high speed tungsten balls to your face or even just your arms and see what happens to your continued combat ability. Body armor cannot protect everything and those fashionable high-speed-low-drag helmets with their ear-piece cutouts that everybody loves so much these days protect worse against fragments than WWI Stahlhelmets.

QTS-11's concept of giving more soldiers per squad a basic airburst capability is a very good idea. The volume of fire and the increase in opportunities to use those against covered enemies makes up its smaller caliber more than enough.

If you have a fully armoured exoskeleton, it will have to be powered.

So does it make sense to have a human inside instead of batteries and weapons?
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Though under the same recoil a shoulder could handle, a 20mm shell could be propelled further.
True to degrees, modern 40x51mm can range out to 800m most 40mm to over 430m though a 20mm might be able to hit the 1000m mark Most infantry fights particularly in urban are going to be closer.
besides again hit the trade offs of blast radius.
 
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