QBZ-191 service rifle family

ohan_qwe said:

I see finger on trigger like OSHA rules in workplace and China ignore both.

Just like a Chinese factories is efficient the army can be combat effective ignoring safety rules.

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Talk to the 1979 Chinese vets who accidentally shot civilians and nearly killed each other due to lack of safety. Basic weapon handling is quite literally easy to teach. You have to be, frankly speaking, retarded to not be able to learn it.

ohan_qwe said:

Looking at Ukraine the important thing on the battlefield seems to be drones and shells which China is focusing on. I haven't heard an actual Ukrainian/Russian commander complain about too many trigger accidents.

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You are talking about forces who throw away their rifles when they see drones. Both sides’ training and professionalism are spotty at best. Their lack of attention to detail and willingness to be cheap even with life saving equipment like tourniquets are quite literally killing them right now. Excluding units such as Russian and Ukrainian SSO, maybe Russian Marines, 12th Azov, and maybe VDV, they are 100% the last military forces you want to emulate.

LawLeadsToPeace said:

You are talking about forces who throw away their rifles when they see drones. Both sides’ training and professionalism are spotty at best. Their lack of attention to detail and willingness to be cheap even with life saving equipment like tourniquets are quite literally killing them right now. Excluding units such as Russian and Ukrainian SSO, maybe Russian Marines, 12th Azov, and maybe VDV, they are 100% the last military forces you want to emulate.

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The US Military isn't any better, if anything they're worse because they're an endless money pit so the US military justs waste resources and taxpayer money for no reason.

The XM7 Rifle is basically a complete disaster compared to the QBZ 191 because atleast the QBZ 191 is a new design with noticble upgrades while XM7 is a shittier version of M16 with everyone not happy with it.

This Iraq veterans account where long story shot a convoy left a functioning bradley and it's driver behind after it was hit with an IED, the Base commander using the survailliance blimp to look inside the base instead of outside and a base SGM stopping conveys at the same spot to makesure they're wearing seatbelts which led to his gunner getting killed.

A potato said:

The US Military isn't any better, if anything they're worse because they're an endless money pit so the US military justs waste resources and taxpayer money for no reason.

The XM7 Rifle is basically a complete disaster compared to the QBZ 191 because atleast the QBZ 191 is a new design with noticble upgrades while XM7 is a shittier version of M16 with everyone not happy with it.

This Iraq veterans account where long story shot a convoy left a functioning bradley and it's driver behind after it was hit with an IED, the Base commander using the survailliance blimp to look inside the base instead of outside and a base SGM stopping conveys at the same spot to makesure they're wearing seatbelts which led to his gunner getting killed.

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Just because one country’s officers do something dumb doesn’t mean you should do the same. Stop with the “Whataboutism”. I have never said that the US military personnel had a perfect track record. We are focusing specifically on the PLA and pointing out issues that we notice repeatedly. That is the point of this forum. This isn’t a circlejerk about how great China is and how everyone else just sucks. Given how we are going off topic, this is going to be my last say on it as well.

LawLeadsToPeace said:

Their lack of attention to detail and willingness to be cheap even with life saving equipment like tourniquets are quite literally killing them right now.

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Actually read an article recently on how the NATO training and over-liberal use of tourniquets in Ukraine have resulted in much higher rate of amputations compared to past US led conflicts.

Primary reason is that NATO forces in low intensity conflicts have very impressive casevac infra with casualties going from contact to field surgical facilities within 60 minutes. The so called golden hour gives very high survivability rate and limb/extremity retention.

Ukrainian forces do not have that level of medical and evacuation sophistication within their theatre of conflict. Casualties frequently take 6+ hours or even day+ to reach Lvl 2~3 medical facilities. Tourniquets in that kind of time frame pretty much guarantee loss of limbs.

A better treatment system for them, given their environmental factors, will be to focus on use of clotting factors and wound packing to arrest hemorrhage without compromising surrounding tissue.

Yes, lack of attention to detail and focusing on what works for YOU rather than copying wholesale what works for OTHERS.

Heliox said:

Actually read an article recently on how the NATO training and over-liberal use of tourniquets in Ukraine have resulted in much higher rate of amputations compared to past US led conflicts.

Primary reason is that NATO forces in low intensity conflicts have very impressive casevac infra with casualties going from contact to field surgical facilities within 60 minutes. The so called golden hour gives very high survivability rate and limb/extremity retention.

Ukrainian forces do not have that level of medical and evacuation sophistication within their theatre of conflict. Casualties frequently take 6+ hours or even day+ to reach Lvl 2~3 medical facilities. Tourniquets in that kind of time frame pretty much guarantee loss of limbs.

A better treatment system for them, given their environmental factors, will be to focus on use of clotting factors and wound packing to arrest hemorrhage without compromising surrounding tissue.

Yes, lack of attention to detail and focusing on what works for YOU rather than copying wholesale what works for OTHERS.

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A fair point about context, but not relevant to basics like trigger discipline which apply universally.

Wrought said:

A fair point about context, but not relevant to basics like trigger discipline which apply universally.

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Oh my, is this what it's about? I'm just ignoring any more post from finger on trigger all the time peeps - no one who has any real world experience with firearms and NDs will ever champion ignoring this basic rule of thumb.

But back to your comment, something applying universally means it also applies to YOU, does it not? Yes, there is a problem of blind copying but there is also a problem of resisting "copying" because you are then seen as copying, even if it's like the most logical pathway for YOU as well.

Heliox said:

Oh my, is this what it's about? I'm just ignoring any more post from finger on trigger all the time peeps - no one who has any real world experience with firearms and NDs will ever champion ignoring this basic rule of thumb.

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Yes.

Heliox said:

But back to your comment, something applying universally means it also applies to YOU, does it not? Yes, there is a problem of blind copying but there is also a problem of resisting "copying" because you are then seen as copying, even if it's like the most logical pathway for YOU as well.

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Idk what you're trying to say here. Trigger discipline is absolutely something which should be copied.

Heliox said:

Actually read an article recently on how the NATO training and over-liberal use of tourniquets in Ukraine have resulted in much higher rate of amputations compared to past US led conflicts.

Primary reason is that NATO forces in low intensity conflicts have very impressive casevac infra with casualties going from contact to field surgical facilities within 60 minutes. The so called golden hour gives very high survivability rate and limb/extremity retention.

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Based on what I have gathered from guys on the ground, they said that the Ukrainians have a very spotty record of training TCCC. For example, one foreign volunteer who was part of a medical team saw that wounded Ukrainians had TQ’s applied below the wound. Another series of events included Ukrainians using cheap TQ’s that were meant to be high quality ones like those from North American Rescue, and that was due to corruption within NGO’s and military. Finally, many soldiers aren’t trained on assessing on when to use the TQ’s and, if so, when to loosen them. Nowadays, elite units like 12th Azov are teaching their Combat Lifesaver course to everyone in their brigade due to the various obstacles that you mentioned. I am not too sure what the Russians are doing though given the language barrier. Nonetheless, while the Ukrainians were too liberal about TQ’s (thanks to rules from GWOT), the relatively and unusually high amputation rate is also due to improper training and corruption.

Heliox said:

Oh my, is this what it's about? I'm just ignoring any more post from finger on trigger all the time peeps - no one who has any real world experience with firearms and NDs will ever champion ignoring this basic rule of thumb.

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Yep, and that is why boot camp exists. I wanted to follow that rule of thumb as well, but considering the fact this is a public forum and that disinformation can actually hurt people, I had to respond.

Heliox said:

But back to your comment, something applying universally means it also applies to YOU, does it not? Yes, there is a problem of blind copying but there is also a problem of resisting "copying" because you are then seen as copying, even if it's like the most logical pathway for YOU as well.

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Agreed on all fronts.