Proposal for an alternate LCS design for the US Navy

planeman

Senior Member
VIP Professional
I like the ideas Jeff, and the argument is strong, but personaly I'd prefer seeing the USN buying a job lot of Americanised Absalon class from Denmark. Much bigger than the LCS, these are basically destroyer sized boats with frigate armaments and a roll-on-roll-off logistic deck - sort of the ultimate "expeditionary frigate".

l16.jpg


Armament wise I'd like to see an 8 or 16 round ESSM VLS on the foredeck with a 57mm or 76mm main gun leaving room for 8-16 SSMs/LACMs amidship. CIWS would be a single Sea RAM launcher and AAA/CISD would be 20mm guns with grenade launchers.
 

bigstick61

Junior Member
given the momentum already in place for an LCS type vessel

I think LCS is already losing that momentum. Last I heard the program was going to be scaled back and also delayed pending further evaluation, and the Lockheed ships, excluding the one fitting out, were cancelled due to high unit cost. Most USN programs are losing momentum fast, although I can't say the USN is not to blame, same in regards to their program features.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
I like the ideas Jeff, and the argument is strong, but personaly I'd prefer seeing the USN buying a job lot of Americanised Absalon class from Denmark.

That would be unprecidented. The US defense industry will not allow such a purchase. The Absalon class is a fine design.

Personally I hope the parties involved "get their stuff" together and get the present USN LCS program back on the right course.
 

planeman

Senior Member
VIP Professional
That would be unprecidented.
And that my friend, is the hypocracy of US military policy.

Actually USN bought BAe Hawk and at least one VSV for SF evaluation. And the USMC bought the Harrier GR1 so not completely unprecidented but I know what you mean.

Even the multihull LCS is basically Australian technology - and and Austral sold (leased?) a fast ferry to USN.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
And that my friend, is the hypocracy of US military policy.

Actually USN bought BAe Hawk and at least one VSV for SF evaluation. And the USMC bought the Harrier GR1 so not completely unprecidented but I know what you mean.

Even the multihull LCS is basically Australian technology - and and Austral sold (leased?) a fast ferry to USN.

They then licensed produced it with substantial modifications. This was for technology and designs that American defense contractors did not have at the time.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
And that my friend, is the hypocracy of US military policy.

Sorry Planeman, That is how the US Defence industry keeps those big defense bucks rolling in$$$$. They lobby the US congress for all sorts of projects day in and day out..year after year. They will let very little slip through. Very little will be outsourced. Is it a perfect system?? No. But it works for those involved. Sorry that you see it as hyporacy.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Sorry Planeman, That is how the US Defence industry keeps those big defense bucks rolling in$$$$. They lobby the US congress for all sorts of projects day in and day out..year after year. They will let very little slip through. Very little will be outsourced. Is it a perfect system?? No. But it works for those involved. Sorry that you see it as hyporacy.
This is correct Popeye. The US lobby groups, reperesnting the Naval defense firms, knows how to work the US ppolitical system. They not only lobby the representatives (which is perfectly legal, and understandable given the nature of our free system), they also spend lots of advertising doallars, perfectly legally, to influence the public at large as well.

...and apparently they are very good at it.

BTW, getting back to the topic of the thread, after lots of discussion with various analysts, and naval architects, I am honing in on a more finalized design.

Here's the pic:

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The AEGIS-lite is gone (too heavy and too expensive). These vessels would be capable of data linking and cooperative engagement with any AEGIS vessel, but would themselves have more traditional acquisition and targeting systems. Advanced? Yes...but not AEGIS.

Also, it is scaled back to aa 32 cell VLS and taking out the TLAM capability, saving lots of weight between the missiles and the systems associated with the TLAM.

In exchange, the larger helo deck and hangar from the LCS design are there, plus the large well-bay under the helo deck for the capability to provide specops and material to shore, the Anti-mine, and specialized remote controlled ASW mission pack type capability if desired.

With the ESSM, the SM3, the Harpoon III, the VLA, the RAM, the MK 32 torpedo launchers, the helos, the 4 Mk 38 Mod 2s and the Mk 110 57mm gun as standard fair, these will really be a light frigate displacement, armed like a frigate.
 
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Scratch

Captain
Though I see the need of an escort capability for bigger groups that you brought up, I still wonder if it needs to perform BMD.
That booster under the missile still adds mass and length in a shallow design.
Wouldn't SM-2 block IIIBs, or later SM-6, be enough here?
Well, in the end it won't change much of course. The versatality is nice to have.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Though I see the need of an escort capability for bigger groups that you brought up, I still wonder if it needs to perform BMD.
That booster under the missile still adds mass and length in a shallow design.
Wouldn't SM-2 block IIIBs, or later SM-6, be enough here?
Well, in the end it won't change much of course. The versatality is nice to have.
My bad...that should be SM6...not SM3. No BMD capability. Will fix the pics. To begin with I believe I had both SM3 and SM6, but then went to just SM6...but edited the wrong one!
 
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Tasman

Junior Member
My bad...that should be SM6...not SM3. No BMD capability. Will fix the pics. To begin with I believe I had both SM3 and SM6, but then went to just SM6...but edited the wrong one!

This now packs a real punch in a 2,300 ton light frigate/large corvette (or WW2 large destroyer!). I wonder how you can realistically get all of this weaponry plus 40 knots speed, 2 helos and a reasonable range in a ship of this size. It seems comparable or better than some much larger frigates such as the 6,000 ton F124. However, I am not a naval architect or engineer. Are you confident that the displacement and size of the ship is sufficient to accommodate all of this and maintain stability and that it can be crewed by just 75? If so this looks like an excellent warship that would be useful for the USN and would appeal to many other navies as well.

Cheers
 
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