PLAN's answer to ROCNs Kidd purchase....

I start a thread in Aviation Forum about ASHm. In the discussions, we moved to the missiles on Kidd and souvrmenny. Seen ROCN will receive 4 Kidd in total, it just balance the number of 052b and Souvrmenny for the time been.

I'd like to start a discussion on these DDGs as they have similar purpose and weapon setups. Souvrmenny is a good ship, but some how, I felt kidd is more balanced and capable ship then it. Especially the ASW, ROCN has always enjoyed a slight edge. What are the electronics suite U.S. fitted on the Kidds? And what missile comes with it?

Just try kick the conversation off.

Lazzy

Sorry but i had to change the tittle. I also get bad feelings of these comparison threads but hope the tittle change schatters that "bad karma"....

lazzydigger said:

I start a thread in Aviation Forum about ASHm. In the discussions, we moved to the missiles on Kidd and souvrmenny. Seen ROCN will receive 4 Kidd in total, it just balance the number of 052b and Souvrmenny for the time been.

I'd like to start a discussion on these DDGs as they have similar purpose and weapon setups. Souvrmenny is a good ship, but some how, I felt kidd is more balanced and capable ship then it. Especially the ASW, ROCN has always enjoyed a slight edge. What are the electronics suite U.S. fitted on the Kidds? And what missile comes with it?
Just try kick the conversation off.

Lazzy

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four kidds does not balance the chines navy. are u forgetting china has the 52cs, 52s, 51bs, 51c under building, 2 sov em under building, ...


the taiwanese have had an edge in asw, but no where close to the u.s's. and chinas diesels are very lethal. chinas lack of decent asw may be attributed to taiwans incapble sub force or 4 subs, two that are 50 years old.

we know the kidds dont have aegis, but must have a fairly good system in place of it. it has 52 standards and 8 harpoons.

since chia can protect it sovs with fighters and 52cs, and there is a lack of taiwanese subs to attack a sov, a sov would hav and advantage over the kidd with its moskits.

as for chinas answer to taiwans kidds...more frigate, more destroyers, more subs, and maybe a carrier. chen has to realize someday he better use taiwans money more wisely, cause hes never going to be able to outspend beijing.

Well, Kidd at least gives Taiwan a little more punch to their surface ship. I would say that if you are talking about old Kidd vs New 956EM, I would take the latter in a real battle.

why are we comparing a kidd the a sov? a sov is not chinas most advanced ship, and idoubt china will order more after the em deliveries are finished.
how bout 52c??
48 hq-9 vs 52 standard...this is going to be a bit hard. ill go with the standard

8 yj-85 vs 8 harpoon...yj-85 hands down, better range and speed. it can dive to the waterline just like the harpoon aswell

2 type 730 vs two phalanx...ill go with the type 730 assuming it has a performance similar to golkeeper/satan/samos

asw...tough. two mk 32 and mk 46 triple launchers vs two yu-7 triple launchers and 4 18 barrel mrls...this all depends if the towed sonar is going to be fitted or not.

comand and control...to little info

It also depends on the radar and the control system on Kidd's ASMs? Does anyone know how many targets it can engage concurrently?

dont forget the ECM on the KIDD is probably better and if the US comes and helps it can link it's missiles so the burkes can fire them.. but what about those kongos?

tphuang said:

Well, Kidd at least gives Taiwan a little more punch to their surface ship. I would say that if you are talking about old Kidd vs New 956EM, I would take the latter in a real battle.

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I would agree with you here. Kidd DDG's will not match the offensive punch in the 956EM Sovremenny. But with Harpoon and SM-2 for defense, Kidd is no pushover in the ASuW role either. With the control system, the Kidd has 2 illuminators. Plus it can use the Combined Antenna system (SPG-60) used to train the gun, to guide SM-2's. I'm not sure what upgrade they will be using in these Kidd's, so I'm not sure how many Standards they will be able to direct at once. But I'm pretty sure it's at least 8. That's just an educated guess based on it's specs from globalsecurity.

At any rate, Taiwan's navy got a big boost in it's surface navy. Kidd will bring more capabilities especially in the ASW role, and in providing air control over the strait.

Looks like the discussion Kicks off well. the reason I put 052B and souvrmenny against the Kidd is because they have the similar characters wheres 052C and 115 are used differently.

From my point of view. Standard II is very capable. PLAAF and PLAN's fighters attackers will have to think twice when it facing 200 standard II missle in total. Standard II's range is much further than what Gizzily can offer too.

Moskit is probably the better missile on paper, but Harpoon is battle proven.

Over all, it boasts ROCN considerably with just enough capability to make the whole Fleet just a edge below PLAN. It is the balance game played by U.S. alot. " I will give u what will make you feel good, but there are better things, so you will come back for more.

Never the less, Kidd is not a push over for sure. Just hope those conscripts know how to use it properly.

Lazzy

lazzydigger said:

Looks like the discussion Kicks off well. the reason I put 052B and souvrmenny against the Kidd is because they have the similar characters wheres 052C and 115 are used differently.

From my point of view. Standard II is very capable. PLAAF and PLAN's fighters attackers will have to think twice when it facing 200 standard II missle in total. Standard II's range is much further than what Gizzily can offer too.

Moskit is probably the better missile on paper, but Harpoon is battle proven.

Over all, it boasts ROCN considerably with just enough capability to make the whole Fleet just a edge below PLAN. It is the balance game played by U.S. alot. " I will give u what will make you feel good, but there are better things, so you will come back for more.

Never the less, Kidd is not a push over for sure. Just hope those conscripts know how to use it properly.

Lazzy

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Harpoon does have some advantages in it's employment over Moskit, but Moskit has an advantage in speed and has a few tricks up its sleeves also. I believe these design characteristics in Moskit should not be ignored. But overall, yes. What really gives the Kidd lethality in the ship-to-ship warfare would be it's command and control and naval synergies. Combine this with the effective SM-2's and Harpoons and you've got some powerhouse surface action forces. But I'm not sure 2 of these ships would be enough to overcome 4 956EM's. Even 2 Sovremennys would be overwhelming without other adequate naval support. But add in U.S. surface forces and Kongos, that's a different story. Like someone said, Kidd SM-2's can be integrated into the AEGIS system. But right now, it looks like 2 Kidds will provide some balance in the strait.