PLAN sub appears close to the USS Kitty Hawk again?

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crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
I'm not sure how a Song could "monitor" the carrier group considering it won't be fast enough to maintain track. You would have to put different Songs on different zones and let the carrier group go through each zone. That would have taken time to set up. If I were to send and track something I would have used a nuclear submarine instead.

Also I don't think the Shenzhen was trying to shadow the US carrier group. It was after all, also on its way to Japan for a visit. The Song or another sub might be just along with the Shenzhen as an escort.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
I'm not sure how a Song could "monitor" the carrier group considering it won't be fast enough to maintain track. You would have to put different Songs on different zones and let the carrier group go through each zone. That would have taken time to set up. If I were to send and track something I would have used a nuclear submarine instead.

Also I don't think the Shenzhen was trying to shadow the US carrier group. It was after all, also on its way to Japan for a visit. The Song or another sub might be just along with the Shenzhen as an escort.

Excellent assestment..The media in this case as it often does is making something out of nothing.
 

Roger604

Senior Member
The most interesting thing is noting who as right about this whole affair. At least there is no doubt in my mind that there was a second incident in 2007. The British Daily Mail broke the news, but they did not go into the details, but left it vague enough that it could be construed as the 2006 incident.

In that same time and place, the US had a big naval exercise and later on China had a big naval exercise too. This was clearly a show of force. Then you have the US ships trying to make port of calls to Hong Kong right when China was conducting the exercises. The suspicion is intelligence gathering. So the Chinese rebuffed the US and prepared a show of force.

And from one of our members:
No, this incident is recent. But it's not a chasing or stalking, but rather an elaborate ambush utilizing PLA's newly-integrated strategic reconnaissance/surveillance capability, e.g., optical/SAR satellites, OTH ionosphere radar, ELINT/AWACS assets etc..

I think the above addresses crobato's concern.

The strange thing is that the dates don't match. The news article was from a few days before the alleged Nov. 23 incident. So perhaps it was actually a series of incidents. An ambush happened before the KH was refused, probably when it was trying to get close to the exercises to gather info, and then again after.

Report: Chinese ships confronted Kitty Hawk

Kyodo News Service
Posted : Wednesday Jan 16, 2008 11:05:39 EST

TAIPEI — A Chinese attack submarine and destroyer shadowed U.S. warships in November in the Taiwan Strait, sparking a 28-hour standoff that brought the group to a battle-ready halt in the tense waters, a report in a Taiwan daily said Tuesday.

The confrontation occurred as the Navy aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk and other ships in its battle group were heading back to Japan following China’s sudden cancellation of a long-scheduled holiday port call in Hong Kong, the China Times said, citing U.S. military sources.

The carrier strike group encountered Chinese destroyer Shenzhen and a Song-class sub in the strait on Nov. 23, causing the group to halt and ready for battle, as the Chinese vessels also stopped amid the 28-hour confrontation, the Chinese-language daily reported.

The Kitty Hawk battle group had planned to pass the Thanksgiving holiday in Hong Kong as it had done in previous years, but China refused it entry without giving a reason.

By the time China reversed its decision, the U.S. ships had already turned around and headed for their home port in Japan. China later told the U.S. that its earlier refusal was a “misunderstanding.”

But that incident came on the heels of China’s refusal of safe harbor in Hong Kong for two Navy minesweepers seeking refuge from a brewing storm. Due to that refusal, the ships had to get refueled at sea so they could return to their home port in Sasebo, Japan.

The two incidents have ruffled feathers in Washington.

Adm. Timothy Keating, who heads the U.S. Pacific Command, is in Beijing this week to discuss what he has called China’s “perplexing” refusals, its worrisome weapons programs and U.S.-China military ties.

He told reporters Tuesday that U.S. warships will cross through the Taiwan Strait whenever they choose to.

“We don’t need China’s permission to go through the Taiwan Strait,” Keating said, stressing that it is international waters. “We will exercise our free right of passage whenever and wherever we choose.”

China has expressed its “grave concern” to the U.S. over the Kitty Hawk’s transit through the Taiwan Strait.

Beijing claims Taiwan as its own, vowing to attack the self-ruled island if it moves to formalize its de facto independence.

The U.S., Taiwan’s chief security benefactor, is legally obligated to help defend the island in the face of Chinese saber-rattling.

In 2006, a Chinese attack sub stalked the Kitty Hawk without being detected until it surfaced within firing range of the group.

Last November’s incident, however, could have been unintentional as the Shenzhen was also headed to Tokyo for an historic port call there, just as the Kitty Hawk was denied Hong Kong entry.

Destroyers are known to travel with a submarine escort.

The confrontation ended without incident as all vessels continued on course toward Japan by Nov. 24.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
In that same time and place, the US had a big naval exercise and later on China had a big naval exercise too. This was clearly a show of force. Then you have the US ships trying to make port of calls to Hong Kong right when China was conducting the exercises. The suspicion is intelligence gathering. So the Chinese rebuffed the US and prepared a show of force.

That makes sense.

Still the part of the Shenzhen and the Song is probably because the Shenzhen is on its way to visit Japan with the Song as an escort, and the Kitty Hawk is on its way to Japan too, for its home port. So you have two ships going along a similar path, one of a visit and one for a home port call, does it make it look like "stalking"?

BTW, subs escort ships in order to make sure that other subs are not tailing the ship.
 

FugitiveVisions

Junior Member
I'm sure there are lots of "incidents", and those you don't read about in the newspaper are the ones that make your hair shoot straight.
 

Roger604

Senior Member
That makes sense.

Still the part of the Shenzhen and the Song is probably because the Shenzhen is on its way to visit Japan with the Song as an escort, and the Kitty Hawk is on its way to Japan too, for its home port. So you have two ships going along a similar path, one of a visit and one for a home port call, does it make it look like "stalking"?

BTW, subs escort ships in order to make sure that other subs are not tailing the ship.

I think what happened is that the KH decided to go through the Taiwan Straits as a show of force. The PLAN had anticipated this, so set up a reconnaissance network (including many different assets) and ordered the Shenzhen on a path that mirrored the KH. The KH group discovered that the Shenzhen was mirroring it, and so got suspicious. They stopped and requested a P-3 from base to conduct ASW. They searched for 28-hours, and found what they believe to be a Song, that eventually scurried away. After the 28-hour ASW search, they moved on.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
I acknowledge that this probably isn't the thread to bring this up, but does anyone know how far the chinese have gotten in adapting their DF-21 ballistic missile into a aircraft carrier killer, or have they flagged it a way, I rememember reading an article in Janes which suggested the Chinese have been playing around with the concept since 2004.and if successful it would be the ultimate weapon as well as keeping any opposing carriers well away from home waters.
 

maozedong

Banned Idiot
I acknowledge that this probably isn't the thread to bring this up, but does anyone know how far the chinese have gotten in adapting their DF-21 ballistic missile into a aircraft carrier killer, or have they flagged it a way, I rememember reading an article in Janes which suggested the Chinese have been playing around with the concept since 2004.and if successful it would be the ultimate weapon as well as keeping any opposing carriers well away from home waters.

I heard this long times ago, I think maybe China still only research, U.S media reported.
 

PrOeLiTeZ

Junior Member
Registered Member
By now the PLA "should" be well in their way in their research, possible testing in couple more years. It wouldn't prevent the carriers from approching. But moreso be like a carrier deterant, to make them think twice before approaching the waters
 
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