PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)

Zetageist

Junior Member
What are the precedents for granting a country with a long coastline more of an EEZ than a country with a island facing the long coastline? I thought the Law of the Sea says that if EEZs overlap, the dividing line will lie equidistant between the two land masses.

Read my post #794 or this link: https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/plan-south-sea-fleet-bases-islands.t4059/page-80#post-328240

According to the Philippines' calculation, because of Itu Aba's coastline is only about 1km, when facing Palawan's overwhelming disproportional long coastline, Itu Aba would get 0 of the overlapping EEZ. Also if Philippines did claim the extended continental shelf, Itu Aba would loose even more the non-overlapping EEZ 25nm regarding the non-living natural resources.
 
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joshuatree

Captain
Sorry, last paragraph should read 'the oil rig incident'. That pass 10 min no edit thing is really bugging me. Also I should say I really like that colorful topographic map. It shows that Itu Aba (Taiping) Island is roughly the center of all Chinese reef reclamations. Also that Fiery Cross Reef is really at the high sea even after takes into the account of extended continental shelf claim of Palawan, so China can build whatever it wants with it without violating either Philippines or Vietnam's EEZ.

Regarding the oil rig incident in the Paracels, the rig was 17 nm off the coast of Triton Island which is well within the 24 nm contiguous zone. In my opinion, that trumps any argument about what median line of overlapping EEZs. If the debate goes back to who owns the Paracels, I'm just gonna refer back to North Vietnam's own diplomatic note acknowledging the territory claims laid out by China. The current govt of Vietnam is the same govt of North Vietnam. All the argument about it wasn't a unified Vietnam back then is moot.

Regarding this latest article, it's one of the more objective articles I've seen from the Philippine side. However, there are still holes in the argument.

For one thing, Itu Aba (Taiping) isn't a trump card, it's really the main focus since the main thrust of the Philippine argument is UNLCOS and the UN. The UN adheres to the One China principle so Itu Aba's EEZ is the first and foremost factor in dissecting these disputes. The Philippine argument only looks at this issue as the last resort and grudgingly at that.

The claim of continental shelf - I was initially perplexed as I was subscribing to the physical definition of continental shelf and wondered how does a country consisting of islands have any continental shelf which is further delineated by the Manila Trench. But I found out the UN simple uses the term as a legal definition of seabed. Having said that, UNCLOS does not simply give any country up to 350 nm of continental shelf where there are opposing or adjacent coasts (Article 83). So Itu Aba's legal continental shelf needs to be factored in.

Then the argument of Fiery Cross or Subi while outside Palawan's 200 nm but within 350 nm of its shelf is another moot point because it would be closer to Itu Aba's shelf than Palawan's. In return I would ask how does the Philippines justify occupying Thitu Island which is outside of Palawan's 200 nm? It also wasn't terra nullius since ROC took control of the Spratlys from Japan vis-a-vis WW2 surrender with 4 warships, one being Taiping thus name of Itu Aba. And Thitu is much closer to Itu Aba'a shelf than Palawan again.

The author mentioned China using loopholes created by the Philippines' legal position. But that's only because the Philippines' argument tries to use loopholes itself such as overlooking Itu Aba or trying at this point to merely call it a rock with no EEZ.

The issue about China not notifying others of its reclamation. Vietnam currently is also reclaiming, don't believe ever hearing about them notifying others. A lot of the violations that China is accused of committing were done by the accusers as well.
 

joshuatree

Captain
Read my post #794 or this link: https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/plan-south-sea-fleet-bases-islands.t4059/page-80#post-328240

According to the Philippines' calculation, because of Itu Aba's coastline is only about 1km, when facing Palawan's overwhelming disproportional long coastline, Itu Aba would get 0 of the overlapping EEZ. Also if Philippines did claim the extended continental shelf, Itu Aba would loose even more the non-overlapping EEZ 25nm regarding the non-living natural resources.

This argument made cuts both ways. If one looks at what the Philippines claims as their northern EEZ against Taiwan, they clearly claim a large swath because of Batanes. But if they want to use this method of calculation in the Spratlys, they need to apply it up here as well and they will not get that hefty claim.

And in my last reply, I pointed out UNCLOS uses the term "continental shelf" as a legal definition, so Itu Aba has its own continental shelf too. The Philippines likes to keep using the 350 nm rule as some hard set rule for their claims but they never mention what other claimant's 350 nm line would look like when overlaid with theirs.
 

Geographer

Junior Member
Zetageist, I appreciate your analysis but it doesn't answer my question about non-SCS precedents for EEZ delineations. Outside the South China Sea, where has an International Court of Justice ruled that, when in conflict, a longer coastline and landmass deserves a larger EEZ than a small coastline and landmass?
 

joshuatree

Captain
Zetageist, I appreciate your analysis but it doesn't answer my question about non-SCS precedents for EEZ delineations. Outside the South China Sea, where has an International Court of Justice ruled that, when in conflict, a longer coastline and landmass deserves a larger EEZ than a small coastline and landmass?

Saint Pierre and Miquelon in relation to Canada. However, keep in mind, SP&M is surrounded practically on three sides by Canadian territory so it's not an exact comparison to Taiping facing off Palawan. For SP&M vs Canada, the continental shelf limits have not been resolved yet.

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I don't know how to use this new format, I honestly liked the old format before the upgrades. It was so much easier to insert code and edit. :mad:
 

Zetageist

Junior Member
Zetageist, I appreciate your analysis but it doesn't answer my question about non-SCS precedents for EEZ delineations. Outside the South China Sea, where has an International Court of Justice ruled that, when in conflict, a longer coastline and landmass deserves a larger EEZ than a small coastline and landmass?

joshuatree pointed out a good example. However, in this case, the court of arbitration's award is somewhat different from straight interpretation of UNCLOS as stated in the Wikipedia. I think Philippines is looking for a straight interpretation of UNCLOS and leaving no keyhole EEZ for Itu Aba. However, according to ROC Taiwan's official statement, it has been consistently claiming sovereignty to the entire Spratly Islands Group rather than just a single Itu Aba Island, so I think EEZ calculation would work different when facing an island group. China (PRC) is still muddled of what it actually claims except that Nine-Dotted-Line since it cannot bring up ROC because China (PRC) no longer recognizes the existence of ROC.

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Since the 1992 award, the decision has been criticised by both Canadian and French commentators as well as neutral observers. Some have noted that a straightforward application of the
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would extend Canada's EEZ beyond the limits of the French corridor, meaning that the French EEZ may be entirely enveloped within Canada's EEZ, a circumstance that was not intended by the arbitation court.

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The boundaries of the 1992
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resolution between Canada and France
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
However, in this case, the court of arbitration's award is somewhat different from straight interpretation of UNCLOS as stated in the Wikipedia. I think Philippines is looking for a straight interpretation of UNCLOS and leaving no keyhole EEZ for Itu Aba. However, according to ROC Taiwan's official statement, it has been consistently claiming sovereignty to the entire Spratly Islands Group rather than just a single Itu Aba Island, so I think EEZ calculation would work different when facing an island group. China (PRC) is still muddled of what it actually claims except that Nine-Dotted-Line since it cannot bring up ROC because China (PRC) no longer recognizes the existence of ROC.

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Please do not use Wikipedia as a definitive source. it is not reliable to that extent.

The quote you use above..."Some have noted that a straightforward application of the
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would extend Canada's EEZ ..." makes that point.

Wikipedia is good for very basic information...but it can be added to, documented, etc. by almost anyone and therefore is not a credible, definitive source.

Go to UNCLOS itself and dig up the precise verbiage, or to official court of arbitration ruling verbiage.

 

Zetageist

Junior Member
Regarding the oil rig incident in the Paracels, the rig was 17 nm off the coast of Triton Island which is well within the 24 nm contiguous zone. In my opinion, that trumps any argument about what median line of overlapping EEZs. If the debate goes back to who owns the Paracels, I'm just gonna refer back to North Vietnam's own diplomatic note acknowledging the territory claims laid out by China. The current govt of Vietnam is the same govt of North Vietnam. All the argument about it wasn't a unified Vietnam back then is moot.

I read somewhere about that the oil rig is placed closer to Triton Island too. I guess when the person mentioned the EEZ of Paracel Islands, she counted the distance from Woody Island instead. The interesting thing is non-Chinese and Western media kept spinning this story about Chinese oil rig was placed well within Vietnamese EEZ, while the Chinese media and its foreign minister didn't defense themselves or even bother to mention that it was placed close to Triton Island. I guess everyone loves China bashing and China loves being bashed. Most of Chinese netizens are well behind the Great Fire Wall so can't come out to spread the words and most of CCP's hired guns are working on the more political websites like The Diplomat.
 
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Equation

Lieutenant General
Most of Chinese netizens are well behind the Great Fire Wall so can't come out to spread the words and most of CCP's hired guns are working on the more political websites like The Diplomat.

Trust me there are plenty of overseas Chinese to let their friends and families know about it.;)
 

Zetageist

Junior Member
Zetageist, I appreciate your analysis but it doesn't answer my question about non-SCS precedents for EEZ delineations. Outside the South China Sea, where has an International Court of Justice ruled that, when in conflict, a longer coastline and landmass deserves a larger EEZ than a small coastline and landmass?

Another interesting example would be Argentina vs U.K. Falkland Islands. This didn't seem to be settled in an international court of justice since it is still disputed. I would like to point out that this Argentina vs Falkland Islands scenario would be similar to few years down the road when China, after all the reef reclamations have finished and have actual asserted control over the entire Spratly Islands group versus Philippines' coastlines.

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The Falkland Islands, a South Atlantic territory disputed between the U.K. and Argentina, held a
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this week in which 99.8% of voters defied Argentina by choosing to remain British. But it's not just about the islands - also at stake are legal rights to the sea for hundreds of miles around.

falkland_islands_maritime_jurisdiction.png

Zones of maritime jurisdiction around the Falkland Islands, highlighting area disputed between the U.K and Argentina. Map by Evan Centanni (country coastlines from the
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dataset).

......

The Falklands are indeed less than 400 nautical miles from mainland Argentina, but the Argentine government doesn't consider this to be a problem, because they consider both the mainland EEZ and the Falkland EEZ to be theirs. The U.K. also claims the waters around the Falklands (though it calls them a "fishery conservation zone" instead of an EEZ), but draws its line short of the halfway point between the islands and Argentina. This might be intended as a show of modesty, though Argentina isn't flattered, since it doesn't think the U.K. should be there in the first place.

.....
 
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