PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)

nfgc

New Member
Registered Member
What exactly are China's claims in the Spratlys? Has Beijing officially announced it owns all, some, or none of the land and features? If China says it owns all of the land/features, how will it enforce its claims? Will it be with gunboats, bilateral strong-arming, or through the International Court of Justice?

Even the Chinese have not clearly stated what the claim is, other than for individuals to state 'I think the Spratly Islands have always been part of China!'.

Looking at what we now as of this writing, what is on the (new) ground, the facilities seem to be capable of projecting military assets from at least the three 'airfield sites', and the smaller 'fort sites' are 80 metre slips and one fort with radar and some emplacements. Four small docking sites and 3 large potential airfields with port(s).

They are in a crude triangle. Subi at the North, Mischief on the SE and Fiery Cross on the SW. Extending 200nm/370km EEZ rings from those three points results in full coverage of the SCS to the Malay/Indo border, to *east* of Palawan Island, and down the coast of Vietnam to as far as Phan Thiet, and as close as the actual physical coastline in many cases.

Bringing the Paracels and Scarborough into a similar arrangement would cover all waters there from Bohai down to Indonesia.

The following observation is difficult to say without violating the TOS for the forum.

It seems clear that by the capabilities of what is already there and likely to be there, that these installations are designed to withstand any force sub-Japan or sub-USA.

IOW, to be superior to VN, PH, MY, ID and BN and anything those nations could mount in any naval sense either jointly or severally. Japan and the USA have tech that would render all of these facilities moot in an afternoon, however what happens next would be unwanted by everyone in the solar system.

The 40-m on a side, 6 to 8 storey buildings are modern star forts, with multiple high walls, and I still have not figured out what those 4-storey hexagonal structures are with the 3 metre centre holes and 4 metre thick walls. I hesitate to speculate. I know what *I* think they are, but that statement would violate the TOS.

There is *a lot* of very thick reinforced concrete already on these islands, many metres thick in many cases. That is extremely hardened for surface structures with no basements.

The buildings appear to be star forts with multiple defensible positions throughout the building, lips/gangplanks on the edge of each corner of each roof, 2-storey 'ground floor' windowless space under each building, and so on.

{BTW, Fiery Cross they appear to be building FOUR of those in a square next to each other - inspect the image from yesterday in extreme magnification}

I don't think I need to go into the details here, we all know the benefits of said construction.

Since, per my analysis, they *appear* to be designed to thwart a threat from those 5 nations, we can infer what the goals will be in the next 10 years. Clearly building out the three largest islands will take a year or two - they are just too substantial to outfit in a few months. It appears they are paving the entire surface of these new islands. 13 sq kms - that's going to take a while.

-Likely extension of the 'water cannon' diplomacy regarding all other regional fishing fleets
-PH fisherman already are selling boats as they claim they cannot fish as in the very recent past.
-Once secured, moving in thousands of Chinese fishing vessels.
-Then moving onto oil and gas exploration with deep sea rigs.
-In addition this projects out Chinese capability to beyond the 1st Island Chain, using only coastal defences on the new SCS island locations.

Just imagine as though Hainan were physically moved 1000kms to the SSE.
Basically the same result. The Chinese Coast Guard will be local and covering Chinese fishing fleets in the region, along with various PLAN hulls.

Once the area is secured, repeating this process on any of the other shoals, reefs or islands is physically possible with the supply chains that will be established by the end of this year.

Establishment of a new province is definitely a possibility, and later some of the larger reefs may be turned into tourist destinations with tourism infrastructure.

As for how geographically far this can go, I present a quote from this weeks news:

"The word backyard is not very appropriate to use for an open sea and international areas of sea," Senior Captain Zhao Yi, associate professor of the Institute of Strategy in China's National Defence University, said during a candid interaction with the resident Indian journalists in Beijing."

How they will do it? Again, TOS violation if I speculate.

The most polite way I can state it is: "Unilaterally".
 

Sweeper Monk

New Member
Registered Member
That's about how I see it too, Wolf, although I think resolving current residents will be every bit as difficult as concluding sovereignty-relating actions. Some people just don't want to leave their "home" for cash or anything else, and the PRC is abound with examples. And now, we turn to the amorphous part of Beijing's 9DL, what about the waters? Has the Foreign Ministry issued any official statements on what China considers sovereign territorial waters?
That also varies depending on the location. A few years ago Philippine settlers in Thitu island / Pagasa were rotated out in 3 month intervals (they are so happy to leave), workers get paid "loneliness pay" etc. There are some people who might want to stay there permanently, but most could probably be bought out, especially when at one stage only 55 people were willing to live there. If there are any hold outs, just increase the financial incentives, but don't tell everyone you're willing to do so until after most have gone.


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delft

Brigadier
That also varies depending on the location. A few years ago Philippine settlers in Thitu island / Pagasa were rotated out in 3 month intervals (they are so happy to leave), workers get paid "loneliness pay" etc. There are some people who might want to stay there permanently, but most could probably be bought out, especially when at one stage only 55 people were willing to live there. If there are any hold outs, just increase the financial incentives, but don't tell everyone you're willing to do so until after most have gone.


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Life will be better when you can go and shop in the nearby Chinese town ......... if you have money to spend.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Even the Chinese have not clearly stated what the claim is, other than for individuals to state 'I think the Spratly Islands have always been part of China!'.
Right now, China is the biggest barrier to resolving the SCS. I say that because Beijing can't point to Washington as chief troublemaker if it refuses to state clearly, unequivocally, and officially that outside normal territorial waters, the rest of the SCS is "high seas" and therefore global commons. I'm sympathetic to Chinese land claims, but even there China's refusal to define its water claims make its neighbors and the US think the worst.

As for how geographically far this can go, I present a quote from this weeks news:

How they will do it? Again, TOS violation if I speculate.

The most polite way I can state it is: "Unilaterally".
When it comes to expanding and modifying land features, I think China has every right to do what they're doing. Of course, other nations have the right to protest till the cows come home, but in the end, it's China's decision to build, and I'm sure they'll take geopolitics in mind.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
That also varies depending on the location. A few years ago Philippine settlers in Thitu island / Pagasa were rotated out in 3 month intervals (they are so happy to leave), workers get paid "loneliness pay" etc. There are some people who might want to stay there permanently, but most could probably be bought out, especially when at one stage only 55 people were willing to live there. If there are any hold outs, just increase the financial incentives, but don't tell everyone you're willing to do so until after most have gone.


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I'm sure China would be happy to pay current Spratly residents reasonable sums of money to leave, but that probably wouldn't happen because the islands are more valuable as economic and strategic anchors. I could envision the following hypothetic scenario: Beijing somehow got Vietnam, Malaysia, and Philippines to agree to drop their claims for economic benefits and security guarantees. Upon hearing the deals are in the works, other great and regional powers (US, India, maybe Indonesia, and Japan) would do their worst to torpedo it.
 

nfgc

New Member
Registered Member
Ah, at last a voice of sanity in the wilderness

Vietnamese, Filipino, and Malay installations have - at most - one metre thick seawalls and structural walls. Japanese tsunami walls were similar.

The hexagonal structures on Johnson Reef (and other sites) measure 4 metres thick all around. 11 metres wide, 3 metre diametre centre hole, 4 metres of rebar and concrete surrounding the hole.

There *are* structures built, in the past, with walls 2.4 to 3.0 metres thick. An online search will reveal their use.

They were not built to only repel high tide or a tsunami, they were built with something else in mind.
 

Lezt

Junior Member
Vietnamese, Filipino, and Malay installations have - at most - one metre thick seawalls and structural walls. Japanese tsunami walls were similar.

The hexagonal structures on Johnson Reef (and other sites) measure 4 metres thick all around. 11 metres wide, 3 metre diametre centre hole, 4 metres of rebar and concrete surrounding the hole.

There *are* structures built, in the past, with walls 2.4 to 3.0 metres thick. An online search will reveal their use.

They were not built to only repel high tide or a tsunami, they were built with something else in mind.
Japanese anti tsunami sea wall is much thicker than 1 meter, they are in the order of around 1 meter at the top, and 6-8 meter at the base:

CAtkAuqXIAA-pKn.jpg:large


The Hong Kong ones are wide enough for a car to drive on top.

Similar to this sea wall in Havana:
800px-Malecon_Havana.JPG


or this one at the isle of wright

800px-Seawallventnor.jpg


Sea walls cannot be thin if they are to resist strong waves,
 
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