PLAN invited to participate in RIMPAC for first the time (2014)

send the hospital ship. big and impressive. a capability few countries have. doesn't compromise anything. might as well do a Pacific cruise along the way and get some photo ops of treating local people. peaceful rise! you practice war, we bring you peace and love. I'd really want to some more pictures of those Cuban female sailors in uniform from the last cruise.
Life Style 88 should tag along, stocked full of liquor. free open bar in Pearl Harbor brought to by PLAN. now that's positive military exchange.

plawolf said:

The PLAN is not going to send the Liaoning out of Chinese waters without an escort, and the US only invited one ship, so even if the Liaoning was ready to make the trip with a full airwing, the PLAN would still not send her.

In that context, I think the PLAN will play it safe and send a capable ship so as not to seem discourteous to the hosts, but they would most certainly not send their sole carrier on the first time they participate.

I would expect an 054, 054A or 052B to be sent, hell, they may even end up sending one of the refurbished 052s, their double hanger would certainly be more useful for search and rescue than any of the other PLAN ships, and they should have the endurance to make it to Pearl without needing a supply ship to tag along.

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Only one ship can participate in the exercises...that doesn't mean more can't come to Hawaii.

And no one is suggesting anywhaere that they send the Liaoning alone. Read the posts. We are talking about it being part of something larger.

Clearly, if they send a frigate, they will also have to send a replenishment vessel of some type for that frigate. And even with a 52, to go all the way to HAwaii, then take part in the exercises and be there for that ime, and then come all the way back will be pushing it for them.

So the issue is not simply the exercise, but the impression the PLAN wishes to leave. As I said, I do not expect it, but I do believe it would be a good thing and a good opportunity to make that Hawaii stop for RIMPAC part of something larger.

That is all.

Blackstone said:

In the spirit of training, send the Zhang He.

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or send Sichang, the ship practically says peaceful rise, and it's monster of a search and rescue platform.

Jeff Head said:

Only one ship can participate in the exercises...that doesn't mean more can't come to Hawaii.

And no one is suggesting anywhaere that they send the Liaoning alone. Read the posts. We are talking about it being part of something larger.

Clearly, if they send a frigate, they will also have to send a replenishment vessel of some type for that frigate. And even with a 52, to go all the way to HAwaii, then take part in the exercises and be there for that ime, and then come all the way back will be pushing it for them.

So the issue is not simply the exercise, but the impression the PLAN wishes to leave. As I said, I do not expect it, but I do believe it would be a good thing and a good opportunity to make that Hawaii stop for RIMPAC part of something larger.

That is all.

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I have read the posts, and it makes little sense to send an entire CSG just for a single escort to participate in some search and rescue exercises. For the Liaoning herself to participate in search and rescue drills would also be a colossal overkill, and frankly, a bit of a waste of her time. Especially when you consider the distance she needs to cover to participate in said exercise.

Having the RIMPAC exercise be one stop of a larger tour would be an even greater waste of time, because the Liaoning would not be able to train as hard with her airwing when they are far from home as they could if they were within range of land based tankers and divert bases.

With the Liaoning only commission for less than 2 years at that point, it would be right in the middle of the intensive training period, when the Liaoning is doing all it can to work up to full combat proficiency. To break with training to send the Liaoning on a round the world cruise with the aforementioned limitations on the intensity, and indeed, even the kinds of things they can safely train for. It would be a far greater waste than the Liaoning being moored at port all this time that you and others have lamented on many occasions. Worse, to break with training then, when the PLAN should have just about got everything in place and ready would be a choice, whereas the delay now could well. be beyond the control of the PLAN command.

Something else to consider is that even though the US extending an invitation is an obvious olive branch and show of good faith, it is not some overwhelming great honour the US has done China that would demand China drop all their plans and send their best ship to repay the favour. China is not some lovesick schoolgirl desperate for attention or insecure loner craving acceptance or validation. Sending the Liaoning and an entire CSG when only one ship was invited for, lets face it, a minor part of the event, would be doing the US far too much honour, and there is little doubt the forums and specialist publications would be full of thinly veiled sniggering or worse if China appeared so desperately keen.

China will send a good, respectable ship, but I doubt they would send even on 052C, let alone the Liaoning.

As for the distance, well, as Joshuatree already pointed out, Singapore is sending a similar sized ship as an 054A from much further away without needing a replenishment ship. If the PLAN made arrangements to be resupplied at port in Hawaii, any of their modern ships can easily make the trip without needing a replenishment ship to tag along.

plawolf said:

I have read the posts, and it makes little sense to send an entire CSG just for a single escort to participate in some search and rescue exercises. For the Liaoning herself to participate in search and rescue drills would also be a colossal overkill, and frankly, a bit of a waste of her time. Especially when you consider the distance she needs to cover to participate in said exercise.

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To my knowledge, no one suggested, certainly not me, that the Liaoning participate in the SAR exercises. And the aim of the group going would not be, as I have indicated, directed at the exercise. If that was all it was, then yes, it would be a waste of time and resource. But that is not the thinking.

plawoldf said:

Having the RIMPAC exercise be one stop of a larger tour would be an even greater waste of time, because the Liaoning would not be able to train as hard with her airwing when they are far from home as they could if they were within range of land based tankers and divert bases.

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Actually she could train going to and from...with her escorts, and if ready, with some aircraft as well. And again, the exercises themselves are not the reason for the group to be going, as I have indicated. The opportunity to make a very strong international and Pacific oriented statement of goodwill would be the principle purpose of such a trip...and the gains the PRC could realize could outweigh such other considerations. It is a matter of strategic thinking as opposed to tactical.

Anyhow, as I said, I do not particularly expect it...but would like to see it.

Jeff Head said:

To my knowledge, no one suggested, certainly not me, that the Liaoning participate in the SAR exercises. And the aim of the group going would not be, as I have indicated, directed at the exercise. If that was all it was, then yes, it would be a waste of time and resource. But that is not the thinking.

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Since US law puts massive curbs on what the US military can do in training with the PLA, apart from SAR and some similar low key sideline exercises, what else can you actually expect any PLAN ship to participate in at RIMPAC? Besides, it would be a bit impolite to show up with a fleet if the hosts only invited you to send one ship.

There will be plenty of other times and opportunities for goodwill visits. It would make little sense for the PLAN to choose to make their first goodwill visit at the same time as any other big event.

If the Liaoning's visit grabs all the attentions and headlines, it can be interpreted as a subtle insult to the event organisers and participants by stealing their thunder. If the Liaoning's arrival is overshadowed by the other event/exercise, then that's a bit of an own goal if the purpose of the trip was a PR flag waving exercise.

Actually she could train going to and from...with her escorts, and if ready, with some aircraft as well.

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As I said before, there will be big safety concerns and constraints with many of the kinds of aircrew training central to achieving operational readiness if you take the ship outside of range of land based tankers and divert fields.

This would be an especially big concern if the pilots are new to carriers and have not have much experience with carrier ops before, as you would expect of the majority of the pilots a year from now, especially if they do not surprise us all with a big batch of J15s soon.

And again, the exercises themselves are not the reason for the group to be going, as I have indicated. The opportunity to make a very strong international and Pacific oriented statement of goodwill would be the principle purpose of such a trip...and the gains the PRC could realize could outweigh such other considerations. It is a matter of strategic thinking as opposed to tactical.

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An 054A or 052B would serve that purpose just as well. Considering the consternation that the PLAN's modernisation in general and carrier program in particular is causing some of China's neighbours, too strong a showing could easily be misunderstood or misconstrued as a show of force and have counter productive results.

But ultimately, at the end of the day, the primary reason for having a military is for national defence. Everything else is a distance second to that primary objective, and it would simply be a mistake to sacrific the operational proficiency of your military for a PR exercise.

If taking part in RIMPAC would adversely affect the training and the date the Liaoning would achieve operational status in a noticeable way, then she should not go irrespective of any other considerations.

Flying the flag is meaningless if doing so makes the guy carrying the flag less able to fight for his flag and country.

Anyhow, as I said, I do not particularly expect it...but would like to see it.

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Maybe one day she will participate, but it will not happen this time, I am sure of it.

plawolf said:

It would make little sense for the PLAN to choose to make their first goodwill visit at the same time as any other big event.

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Actually, it would be the perfect time. The entire exercise and the events surrounding it are a massive Pacific RIM goodwill measure.

plawolf said:

As I said before, there will be big safety concerns and constraints with many of the kinds of aircrew training central to achieving operational readiness if you take the ship outside of range of land based tankers and divert fields.

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They have a year to prepare. If they worked at it, they could be ready to carry 4-5 aircraft with them.

plawolf said:

Flying the flag is meaningless if doing makes the guy carrying the flag less able to fight for his flag and country.

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If a 4+ week trip like this would adversely impact national defense, of course, I agree. But, conversly, if such a trip as this would impact national defense adversely, then the PLAN has much more serious problems than we are aware of...and I frankly do not believe it is so.

plawolf said:

Maybe one day she will participate, but it will not happen this time, I am sure of it.

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We shall see. Time will tell. As I said, I do not expect it, but would like to see it. And there are good reasons to do so. Whatever happens, the PRC and PLAN will do what they do and being a part of RIMPAC in any way is a good thing.

Jeff Head said:

Actually, it would be the perfect time. The entire exercise and the events surrounding it are a massive Pacific RIM goodwill measure.

They have a year to prepare. If they worked at it, they could be ready to carry 4-5 aircraft with them.

If a 4+ week trip like this would adversely impact national defense, of course, I agree. But, conversly, if such a trip as this would impact national defense adversely, then the PLAN has much more serious problems than we are aware of...and I frankly do not believe it is so.

We shall see. Time will tell. As I said, I do not expect it, but would like to see it. And there are good reasons to do so. Whatever happens, the PRC and PLAN will do what they do and being a part of RIMPAC in any way is a good thing.

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Alls I gotta say is PLAN better bring EVERYTHING to RIMPAC. I mean looked what happened the last time people were unprepared?!? Don;t say I didn't warn.

Jeff Head said:

Actually, it would be the perfect time. The entire exercise and the events surrounding it are a massive Pacific RIM goodwill measure.

They have a year to prepare. If they worked at it, they could be ready to carry 4-5 aircraft with them.

If a 4+ week trip like this would adversely impact national defense, of course, I agree. But, conversly, if such a trip as this would impact national defense adversely, then the PLAN has much more serious problems than we are aware of...and I frankly do not believe it is so.

We shall see. Time will tell. As I said, I do not expect it, but would like to see it. And there are good reasons to do so. Whatever happens, the PRC and PLAN will do what they do and being a part of RIMPAC in any way is a good thing.

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Well, we seem to be going around in circles, so I guess its best to just agree to disagree on this one mate.

I have a feeling that PLAN will send Flotilla of SSN/SSBN