Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
What attribute you mean using Cruise missile to attack? but type 56 has Yu 8 ASROC too
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PLAN ASW Capability
- Thread starter shen
- Start date
The pair of vintage 052 are practically ASW frigates by now. One of them was last seen in the SCS doing ASW drills, despite being North Sea based.
Despite their age, the bow sonar, the TAS and the VDS have all been retrofitted to the current standard. It also has the advantage of having gas turbines and two helicopters.
With the size bar for modern frigates infringing past the 6000-7000 ton territory, a 052X sized frigate won't be out of place.
I would expect 052B refits to add the VDS, although it does not appear that the hangers will be dual.
Cutting back the AAW suite to "frigate" levels means going back from HHQ-9 to HHQ-16 base. That means reverting to a modernized 052B. AJK-16 VLS means access to YU-8 ASROCs and the YJ-83 slant canister layout means access to the YU-11 ASROC. I think its possible the VLS can be extended to 48 which can make more YU-8 available, and with 16 slant canisters means plenty of YU-11. The ship is essentially a 054A with gas turbines and steroids.
Brand new dedicated ASW 052X "frigates" might be a dream for now, although I do think the 052B refits will bring the two ships to the current ASW standard.
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The PLAN has a requirement to be capable of performing and concentrating robust multi-domain ASW capabilities in its peripheries, yes.
But that does not mean that they can let its blue water capable ships anything short of a robust and competitive organic ASW capability either.
There are indeed a large number of 056As -- 50 056As have been built before production ended for the PLAN.
However, the PLAN's fleet of blue water capable ships equipped with the same twin tail ASW suite (TAS+VDS) that has been put in the water is actually going to be greater in number than the 056As they've built.
Current blue water capable ships that include the TAS+VDS suite includes: 8x 055s, 25x 052Ds, 14x 054As -- 47 ships.
That doesn't include 2x recently launched new flight 054As for the PLAN, of 20 newly ordered 054As... nor does it include an order of 055s and 052Ds that we have heard rumours of, and whose further production is virtually guaranteed as part of the 14th five year plan.
And this doesn't include the 054B/next generation frigate either, which we expect to emerge in the near future, which will feature a towed ASW suite that is at least equal to that of 055/052D/054A hull 17 onwards/056A.
And we don't have any further rumours or indications of continued 056A production.
That is to say, the 056A is not the PLANs "primary ASW workhorse".
Rather, than 056A is the PLANs "primary short range, short endurance ASW workhorse". The 056As are incapable of operating beyond the first island chain, and are also incapable of operating at sea for long durations even within the first island chain.
However, the PLAN's blue water capable ships like 055, 052D, 054A (and future 054B), are not only blue water capable and able to operate outside the first island chain, but are also capable of operating within the first island chain for long durations -- much longer durations than the smaller 056A is, and these blue water capable ships are of course also multirole featuring much more powerful other sensors and weapons.
All of these ships, in their ASW role, are complementary to one another, and when operating closer to shore, they are also complementary with land based ASW capabilities (like fixed wing ASW MPAs).
Practically speaking, there's no reason why an 055 cannot act as overwatch for a surface action group of surface combatants that also include a large number of 056As.
I agree that the PLAN's surface combatant procurement in the framework of a "seagoing navy" and "coastal navy".
But in practice, depending on the calibre of the enemy, the availability of one's land based air power, the nature of a conflict, it is very very realistic to come up with scenarios whereby ships of the "coastal navy" operating within the first island chain are complemented by more capable blue water ships of the "seagoing navy".
For example, in the SCS, I could easily see multiple small groups of 3-4 056As operating in packs across hundreds of kms, all of which include an 054A operating as localized medium range air defense (while lending its own ASW suite and its greater firepower and heft for the defense of the nearby 056As), while a larger group consisting of an 055 and a couple of 052Ds operate at an equal distance to the various 056A/054A groups as overwatch and as a bastion of theater anti surface capability and airspace monitoring and long range air defense, while land based airpower such as an AEW&C, a handful of ASW MPA, and a few multirole fighter CAP, provide supporting fixed wing support, all mutually supporting each other and networked together as much as practically possible.
For such a force, the naval commander of the battlespace would most logically reside on the 055.
Aaron Amick, who runs the youtube channel Sub Brief, suggests that China's best ASW platform is the Type 39C SSK (he typo in the title as 093C, but definitely isn't referring to some secret variant of the Shang SSN). He also seem to have a high opinion of the Song SSK. According to him, it's the combination of a silent electric motor and the long underwater endurance (for SSK) that makes the Type 39C effective. French-designed sonars are also quite good.
What's interesting is that he thinks it's quite possible that it already has lithium ion battery operational on the sub (the battery itself is nothing spectacular, but it's the technology to use it on a sub safely that countries are struggling with).
Should note that he specifically points out that his choice is subjective. At least he has that carefulness to know that he is not quite up to par with his knowledge on the PLAN. As for what is my own highly subjective opinion, I think its the Type 054A or the Type 056A operating in packs.
While the French designed sonars are good, at some point however, they may have been replaced or at least the ones on the Yuan are not the same as on the Song. The Yuan sonars are likely to be indigenously designed, with inspiration from the MGK-400 sonar from the Kilo, which is very good and from the French sonars. The Chinese would have gotten the MGK-400EM from the Kilo 636s they bought, and they would have been studying the MGK-400 since they bought the Kilo 877s from the late 90s. IMO the MGK-400 Rubikon is one impressive kit, and something copied/inspired from this would be a better fit on the spherical bow of the Yuan.
Going to add to that, the bow sonar on the Song is going to be smaller than the Yuan due to the shape of the bow.
The Song has three flank sonars while the Yuan has this long linear sonar along the bottom. So there's no way the Yuan has the Song's sonars even if the latter is allegedly French inspired and is said to be good. If the Song's sonars is inspired from the French, it would have to be from the Agosta submarine.
The Agosta does not have this long linear sonar on the bottom, and neither does the Kilo.
This long linear line is similar to the Type 212, but not likely to have any German input.
A similar line appears on the Scorpene but not likely to have any French input either.
My guess is that this is a low frequency long range passive sonar.
The Song has three flank sonars while the Yuan has this long linear sonar along the bottom. So there's no way the Yuan has the Song's sonars even if the latter is allegedly French inspired and is said to be good. If the Song's sonars is inspired from the French, it would have to be from the Agosta submarine.
The Agosta does not have this long linear sonar on the bottom, and neither does the Kilo.
This long linear line is similar to the Type 212, but not likely to have any German input.
A similar line appears on the Scorpene but not likely to have any French input either.
My guess is that this is a low frequency long range passive sonar.
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