PLAN ASW Capability

Lethe

Captain
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1960s unmanned miniature anti-submarine helicopter.

A modern incarnation could be very useful in equipping small vessels with robust anti-submarine capability. Because the efficacy of anti-submarine efforts is largely a function of the number and distribution of sensor platforms and their availability, in some circumstances a vessel operating 2-3 of these helicopters could well be more effective than one operating a single larger manned helo.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Thats the problem with @FORBIN ... he has no point (that we can understand!)
Respectfully in my opinion (not stating as facts), I think his point is that he dislikes certain members' views so he reports them for trolling even when their posts are not flame baits to begin with.

He took tissue with the following post

In the context of Hendrik's post, SQUID when successfully developed/implemented has the capability to make it harder for US, NATO subs to complete surveillance missions near Chinese water. Hence harder for US subs' crews to hoist Jolly Roger flags, mark of success.

From my understanding, sub surveillance missions are conducted routinely by every navies during peace time. This has nothing to do with war or talking about war between China and US.
It is nor your problems your not moderators but you have the merit of being correct texx1

What exactly is your problem here?
You i have see all yout hatefull posts ! your only here for propaganda you provide Nothing interesting for military matters post in Chinese forums better if you a real Chinese...

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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
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1960s unmanned miniature anti-submarine helicopter.

A modern incarnation could be very useful in equipping small vessels with robust anti-submarine capability. Because the efficacy of anti-submarine efforts is largely a function of the number and distribution of sensor platforms and their availability, in some circumstances a vessel operating 2-3 of these helicopters could well be more effective than one operating a single larger manned helo.

True, but a fixed wing platform beats a helicopter on the basis of cost versus capability.

And I would add the speed of the platform as well.

Eg. A fixed wing Y-8Q can fly much faster than a helicopter, and can scan a lot more ocean with MAD (or SQUID) equipment. It also has way more endurance and payload as well.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
From National interest quoting British study. With the proliferation of new sensor like SQUID, LIDAR, underwater communication, gliders, automatic sonobuoy, cheap HALE UAV, hiding is becoming more difficult
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The U.S. Navy's Nuclear Submarines Could Be Made Obsolete
7308245036_9ff4407d77_o.jpg

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September 25, 2017

On a more human level, it would be interesting to go back in time to World Wars I and II, where a constant refrain of the sailors and airmen who hunted subs was the sheer tedium of the search. Hour after hour after hour of scanning the oceans, in the hope that a needle in the haystack would reveal itself as a sonar contact or a tiny periscope peeking above the surface. If nothing else, farming out sub-hunting to the robots will make chasing subs a bit less dull.

Submarines can run—but they can't hide—from drones.

That's the contention of a new report by a British think tank, which argues that the growing numbers and sophistication of drones are depriving submarines of their stealthiness.


The
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, authored by science journalist David Hambling for the British American Security Information Council, was written as a briefing paper for Britain's Parliament, which must consider whether to modernize or scrap the UK's Trident nuclear missile subs.

The report points out the century-old method of hunting subs is changing:


"In the past, antisubmarine warfare (ASW) has been carried out by a small number of highly capable ships and manned aircraft. Their task has been like that of a handful of police looking for a fugitive in a vast wilderness. Lacking the manpower to cover the whole area, they have to concentrate their forces on the most likely paths and hideouts, and hope for a lucky break."

Now, highly expensive subs must contend with an expanding array of cheap robot sub-hunters that can blanket the ocean, sort of in the same way that German U-boat "
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" ganged up on Allied convoys in the North Atlantic. These include small handheld drones that the U.S. military is designing to operate in swarms, air-launched drones like the U.S.
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that can be dropped by ASW aircraft, and sonar-equipped underwater robot gliders that quietly search the ocean.


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"Small unmanned platforms can carry many types of sensors active and passive sonar, magnetic anomaly detectors, wake detection LIDAR, thermal sensors, laser-based optical sensors capable of piercing seawater and others," Hambling writes. "A submarine which can be seen by any one of these will cease to be invisible. A submarine whose location is exposed is highly vulnerable to instant attack. If submarines are easily detectable, they lose all their advantages as strategic weapons platforms."

Drones versus subs is essentially an arms race, a contest between an expensive but fragile weapon pitted against hordes of cheap sensor and weapons platforms. It parallels the race between the development of stealth aircraft, and the development of sensors to detect them.

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Unfortunately for the subs, it's not an equal contest. A U.S. Virginia-class attack submarine costs nearly $3 billion: a small unmanned aircraft might cost $5,000, and a swarm of thirty drones just $150,000. The drone isn't as capable as the sub, but that's not the point. Nuclear missile submarines have always been considered the invulnerable backbone of a nation's nuclear force, able to hide in the ocean unlike land-based ICBMs or bombers. If the United States, Russia, China, Britain or France—not to mention Israel—fear that their ballistic subs are vulnerable to a surprise drone attack, this could make decision-makers much more ready to pull the trigger in a crisis.

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On a more human level, it would be interesting to go back in time to World Wars I and II, where a constant refrain of the sailors and airmen who hunted subs was the sheer tedium of the search. Hour after hour after hour of scanning the oceans, in the hope that a needle in the haystack would reveal itself as a sonar contact or a tiny periscope peeking above the surface. If nothing else, farming out sub-hunting to the robots will make chasing subs a bit less dull.

Either way, antisubmarine warfare will never be the same. "The oceans are becoming a 'sensor rich' environment full of drones, with eyes and ears everywhere," writes Hambling. "This will leave no hiding place for submarines."

Michael Peck is a contributing writer for the National Interest. He can be found on
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and
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.

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: Wikimedia Commons/U.S. Navy.
 

Yvrch

Junior Member
Registered Member
It is nor your problems your not moderators but you have the merit of being correct texx1


You i have see all yout hatefull posts ! your only here for propaganda you provide Nothing interesting for military matters post in Chinese forums better if you a real Chinese...

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just here you are on which you are providing. for military issues you've seen all in Chinese forums for hatred jobs for propaganda are posted better if you are a real Chinese No interesting world ... Nice a have day!
 

delft

Brigadier
From National interest quoting British study. With the proliferation of new sensor like SQUID, LIDAR, underwater communication, gliders, automatic sonobuoy, cheap HALE UAV, hiding is becoming more difficult
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The U.S. Navy's Nuclear Submarines Could Be Made Obsolete
7308245036_9ff4407d77_o.jpg

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September 25, 2017

On a more human level, it would be interesting to go back in time to World Wars I and II, where a constant refrain of the sailors and airmen who hunted subs was the sheer tedium of the search. Hour after hour after hour of scanning the oceans, in the hope that a needle in the haystack would reveal itself as a sonar contact or a tiny periscope peeking above the surface. If nothing else, farming out sub-hunting to the robots will make chasing subs a bit less dull.

Submarines can run—but they can't hide—from drones.

That's the contention of a new report by a British think tank, which argues that the growing numbers and sophistication of drones are depriving submarines of their stealthiness.


The
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, authored by science journalist David Hambling for the British American Security Information Council, was written as a briefing paper for Britain's Parliament, which must consider whether to modernize or scrap the UK's Trident nuclear missile subs.

The report points out the century-old method of hunting subs is changing:


"In the past, antisubmarine warfare (ASW) has been carried out by a small number of highly capable ships and manned aircraft. Their task has been like that of a handful of police looking for a fugitive in a vast wilderness. Lacking the manpower to cover the whole area, they have to concentrate their forces on the most likely paths and hideouts, and hope for a lucky break."

Now, highly expensive subs must contend with an expanding array of cheap robot sub-hunters that can blanket the ocean, sort of in the same way that German U-boat "
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
" ganged up on Allied convoys in the North Atlantic. These include small handheld drones that the U.S. military is designing to operate in swarms, air-launched drones like the U.S.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
that can be dropped by ASW aircraft, and sonar-equipped underwater robot gliders that quietly search the ocean.


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


"Small unmanned platforms can carry many types of sensors active and passive sonar, magnetic anomaly detectors, wake detection LIDAR, thermal sensors, laser-based optical sensors capable of piercing seawater and others," Hambling writes. "A submarine which can be seen by any one of these will cease to be invisible. A submarine whose location is exposed is highly vulnerable to instant attack. If submarines are easily detectable, they lose all their advantages as strategic weapons platforms."

Drones versus subs is essentially an arms race, a contest between an expensive but fragile weapon pitted against hordes of cheap sensor and weapons platforms. It parallels the race between the development of stealth aircraft, and the development of sensors to detect them.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Unfortunately for the subs, it's not an equal contest. A U.S. Virginia-class attack submarine costs nearly $3 billion: a small unmanned aircraft might cost $5,000, and a swarm of thirty drones just $150,000. The drone isn't as capable as the sub, but that's not the point. Nuclear missile submarines have always been considered the invulnerable backbone of a nation's nuclear force, able to hide in the ocean unlike land-based ICBMs or bombers. If the United States, Russia, China, Britain or France—not to mention Israel—fear that their ballistic subs are vulnerable to a surprise drone attack, this could make decision-makers much more ready to pull the trigger in a crisis.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


On a more human level, it would be interesting to go back in time to World Wars I and II, where a constant refrain of the sailors and airmen who hunted subs was the sheer tedium of the search. Hour after hour after hour of scanning the oceans, in the hope that a needle in the haystack would reveal itself as a sonar contact or a tiny periscope peeking above the surface. If nothing else, farming out sub-hunting to the robots will make chasing subs a bit less dull.

Either way, antisubmarine warfare will never be the same. "The oceans are becoming a 'sensor rich' environment full of drones, with eyes and ears everywhere," writes Hambling. "This will leave no hiding place for submarines."

Michael Peck is a contributing writer for the National Interest. He can be found on
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and
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.

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: Wikimedia Commons/U.S. Navy.
Time to think of abolishing nuclear weapons all together.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Time to think of abolishing nuclear weapons all together.
Better sure but not possible they have do their job...

BTW only idiots can think submarine can be obsolete ! been mentioned for a long time for aircrafts carriers look China...
 

delft

Brigadier
Don't think that will ever happen, crazy and mad as it may sound, nuclear weapons have kept the peace among the near peer nations for the last 70 years.
Look how little advantage occupying Afghanistan and Iraq brought to US. War between near peers in a World without nuclear weapons would not be more advantageous.
 
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