PLAN Anti-ship/surface missiles

Hendrik_2000 said:

Thanks found it. 2 can be carried by JH7B guess the same number or 2 more can be carried by J 11 BH. This article talk about YJ 100? Mysterious missile.How reliable is this

New PLA anti-ship missiles (The YJ-12 supersonic missile) revealed - A JH-7B fighter bomber carrying a YJ-12 supersonic missile

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Photos of China's new YJ-12 supersonic anti-ship missile and YJ-100 anti-ship cruise missile were recently revealed on a Chinese military website.Both missiles are designed to be launched from the H-6G strategic bomber and JH-7B fighter bomber of the People's Liberation Army Navy Air Force, the paper said. The YJ-100 is developed based on the country's CJ-10 cruise missiles, while it can be classed as a suitable medium-range missile with a range between 550 and 650 kilometers when launched in mid-air.

Through studying the photos released online, military experts estimated that the size of the YJ-12 is about six meters long with a radius between 0.55-0.6 meters, which is smaller than expected. The YJ-12 also looks much smaller than the Russian-built 3M55 and 3M80 and it may have a shorter range and loading capacity as well. Meanwhile, experts believe the YJ-12 can carry a warhead of 2,000-2,500 kilograms.

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Hendrik_2000 said:

China’s Most Dangerous Missile (So Far)

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July 2, 2014

A realistic future scenario is an attack on two or more axes by two Chinese Flanker regiments (totaling 48 Su-30 MKK or J-11B Flanker fighter-bomber variants). These Flankers (roughly corresponding to U.S. Air Force F-15E fighter-bombers, capable of supersonic speeds, and possessing a combat radius of 1,500 kilometers) could each be armed with two to four YJ-12 ASCMs. Although the carrier strike group’s combat air patrol could shoot down a few of the Flankers before they launched their missiles, the strike group would still face the prospect of defending against over a hundred supersonic ASCMs approaching from several directions at a wave-top height. The group’s close-in air defenses would have less than 45 seconds to engage the missiles after they appeared on the horizon.

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Iron Man said:

This is actually an unrealistic scenario given that it assumes the carrier group's E-2C/D is non-existent or has been knocked out. That Hawkeye will be the most heavily protected asset in the air and will not easily go down. Bottom line, if the Hawkeye is on patrol it will see the Flankers several hundred km away from the carrier, long before they can launch. The range of the AN/APS-145 of the E-2C is usually quoted at 650 km or so; that of E-2D's AN/APY-9 is probably greater than that, and effective against stealth targets like the J-20. The E-2 will be probably be flying 100-200 km out from the carrier in the direction of the threat axis which means detection could start as soon as 800 km or more from the carrier. The carrier's CAP would be vectored towards the Flankers, and I will venture to say that more than a "few" of them would be shot down. Assuming a larger number of them still make it past the CAP, they couldn't launch until 400 km from the carrier, at which point they become vulnerable to the SM-6 controlled by the Hawkeye. The carrier group could take pot shots at the Flankers and YJ-12 missiles all the way in using SM-6 (400+ km max range), SM-2 (170 km), ESSM (60 km), Sea Sparrow (20 km), and finally RAM (9 km) and CIWS (2-3 km). As long as there is a Hawkeye flying above, the carrier group doesn't have to wait for the missiles to break the radar horizon to shoot at them. Of course, if there is no Hawkeye in the air, the carrier group is going to have a bad day.

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Hendrik_2000 said:

That kind of scenario might work against 3rd world country that doesn't have robust air force. Against peer or near peer foe it won't
You think the opfor would let E-2 go merrily doing their job and go unmolested?

They will become the first target with long range air to air missile .That what J 20 are designed for. To sneak thru the cordon launched long range missile and scud

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Iron Man said:

There will be no sneaking through, not when the E-2D with its UHF band AESA can detect stealth fighters hundreds of km away. The J-20's stealth is in no way optimized to defeat UHF; this is the exact same reason ships like the 052C/D have those early warning yagi antennas. And there is no AAM that the PLAN currently possesses that has the range to shoot down a Hawkeye from outside its detection range. The best hope for the J-20 is a squadron full of them making a mad dash through the swarm of Hornets and F-35s and hoping that at least one gets through to shoot down the E-2, and then quickly take advantage of the carrier's temporary blindness to launch a saturation attack at the CSG before it launches another E-2. The J-20's advantage will be mostly versus other fighters and not so much versus the E-2. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it certainly is much harder than your 'near peer E-2 molestation' scenario. It might even just be easier to straight up launch a standard saturation attack leaving the E-2 in the air and attrite down the CSG's air defense missiles, hoping to have enough left over to do significant damage to the escorts and carrier. In this case the YJ-12's supersonic dash speed won't be as useful, since it would be more profitable for a Flanker to load 4 of any other ASCM rather than only 2 of the YJ-12.

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Ultra said:

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Can the E-2D itself evade long range AA missiles? Because that's what Hendrik_2000 is saying, the first barrage of long range AA missiles will take out all the AEW and AWACS.

If radar's detection range has to do with its power output and computational processing power, then aerial based radar like the AEW/AWACS is limited by its own carrying capacity for power equipments, fuel and processing computers. It will never be able to match what a ground based radar with unlimited power (the whole national power grid behind it!) and processing power (China owns the world's fastest, the No.1 and No. 2 super computers which dwarf the american rival by a factor of 5 times, and the chinese military probably has several of it).

What I am alluding to is that China can and probably already possess very long range radars -
for the E-2D to come even remotely near Chinese shore, it is already a target.
The American has since 1960s a whole systems of OTH (Over-The-Horizon) radars which has the range of 3000-4000km. The US Navy's Sea-based X-Band radar has a range of over 5000 km. These dwarfs what any of the aerial AEW/AWACS can do by a factor of 10 times (E2-D has a reported range of 500 km). Even the Israeli Super Green Pine has the range of 800 km.

And China will soon to have (or already possess?) S-400 in its arsenals. With 400 km of reported range, the E-2D will have to operate at the edge of its detection range, which makes it redundant as it cannot get any closer before getting shot down.

And I think right now is a good time for China to think about developing extremely long range ground launch AA missiles specifically targeting the AEW/AWACS (which are slow flying) using the DF-21D as basis. There shouldn't be any technical issues for them to do so, and with a range of 3000 km it will nullify any of the american AEW/AWACS threats that are even remotely coming towards Chinese shore.

So in any of the confrontational situation, it is the AEW/AWACS that are the shooting ducks.

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rhino123 said:

You are thinking of the E-2D that operate alone without any other support and that situation normally only happened during peacetime. And during peacetime, even if US AEW invaded China shore, the Chinese will not risk open war and shoot down these aerial vehicle, at the most, they will scrambled their fighters to intercept, chase away or force these vehicles to land in Chinese shore.

In war time AEW/ AWACS will be protected and escorted by fighters. And US doesn't only depends on these aerial vehicles if the area they accessed to be highly dangerous. Normally when that happened, they will not send in the AEW/ AWACS unsupported or at all... and rely on satellites or other more discrete means of detection. And there are also other means to allow safer passage of the AEW/ AWACS (ways I will not discuss here because it will be wayyyyy OT).

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Ultra said:

Even with escorted fighters, can these fighters SHOOT DOWN incoming missiles travelling at hypersonic speed (twice faster than mach 2 their maximum speed) that are targetting them head-on and also the AEW/AWAC behind them? I don't think so.

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Iron Man said:

This is actually an unrealistic ... ...

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