PLAN Anti-ship/surface missiles

Rafi

Junior Member
Registered Member
Pakistan will never allow Chinese missiles on its soil especially when those missiles will be aimed at military facilities of America & its allies. People keep forgetting that Pakistan has always run on three As - Allah, Army, America. The Pakistani state as well as its army owes their entire existence to the Anglos lol. Same reason why Gwadar will never become a PLAN base. China is living in a fool's world if it thinks Pakistan is an ally.

China's only other hope, so far as Diego Garcia is concerned, is Myanmar but the missiles will have to overfly India so the entire thing looks a non-starter.

BS - total ignorance lol the mere fact of Pak's nuclear program and defiance of US pressure regarding A-stan and other policies including close relations with China (which every govt including civil and military have supported) proves that you wrong.

The three A's are injun propoganda and have never been articulated by any official policy. The Army is powerful and Pakistan is a Muslim country, also the US has been the only superpower (and until recently China had to be wary of openly defianing it)

Regarding putting PLA hardware openly in Pakistan is concerned the govt would be wary of openly opposing the west without some sort of formal military alliance including more of a shield from Western pressure.
 

drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
A magazine illustration of containerized anti-ship missile system.

52636855306_706bcf0ed6_h.jpg
is this stuff legal? you are disguised as civilians...
 

ashnole

New Member
Registered Member
is this stuff legal? you are disguised as civilians...
(1) Every kind of stuff is pretty much legal so far as it is non-chemical, non-biological and non-nuclear.

(2) During wartime American SSNs & Carrier-based tactical aviation will sink your merchant fleet anyway whether they carry containers full of anti-ship/land-attack cruise missiles or carry containers full of consumer goods. Might as well put some of your merchant fleet to unconventional war use and try to do damage to the enemy.

(3) Pretty sure America & its allies have similar cruise missile containers carrying Naval Strike Missiles & Tomahawks themselves.
 

ashnole

New Member
Registered Member
More range is fine. The more the better.
In 2021 China demonstrated a FOB (fractional orbital bombardment) missile / rocket system with a HGV. Since this can orbit the planet technically it has "unlimited range". How's that for range, it doesn't get any better than "unlimited".
but...
How much is the cost? Now here's the problem. Such a weapon system may play a specialized role, but its cost prohibitiveness guarantees it will never play a large role in projecting power, unless there's some massive tech upgrade to drop the cost. Perhaps there will be an anti-ship variant in the future 10+ years from now, but that is just speculation.

I believe the DF-26 will play a large role because it is cheap enough to be mass produced in large quantity or at least sufficient quantity. It's range is not bad, definitely an improvement over the DF-21.
The key for winning the Pacific War of the future is to juggle 3 variables and find the right comprise between: cost, quantity, and range
Well said. DF-26 is at the right cost for a mass produced long-range ballistic missile. Beyond that, in case you want more range, missiles are going to get super-expensive very quickly and to a point where you could produce multiple long-range cruise missiles or smaller ballistic missiles for the cost of a single very long-range ballistic missile. This is where the utility of a large bomber force, carrying multiple cost-effective long-range cruise missiles and/or short-to-medium range air-launched ballistic missiles to intercontinental ranges, comes.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
I agree
China needs to "break out of the First Island Chain" if it wishes to fulfill its ambitions and win the confidence of these small island nations out in the Pacific. Respect must be earned.

In December 2022. The Liaoning carrier performed a FON "Freedom of Navigation" run, passing by Guam, out in the 2nd island chain for the first time. This was big news.

By 2026 I expect the Type 003 Fujian carrier battle group to make a FON run passing by Hawaii, out in the 3rd island chain for the first time. By now FON runs out to the 2nd island chain will become so frequent it will be considered small news.

By 2029 I expect the Type 004 carrier battle group to make a FON run passing by California. China will have earned the confidence of these small island nations in the Pacific. A serious discussion can now be made of the placement of DF-26s. Like I said before, "The PLA - Rocket Force will operate outside of China." This will be critical to winning a future war in the Pacific.
Let's keep our excitement within the limits for the time being.

The probability of seeing 004 before the end of this decade is low, depending on the progress of large nuclear marine propulsion development, plus the 048 Project which stipulated that China would need to construct 2 conventionally-powered supercarriers first within this decade before moving on to nuclear-powered supercarriers.

Furthermore, I think the PLAN would be more than happy when they can finally make Chinese CSGs sailing up to the Second Island Chain on a regular basis a reality. Let's save the sailing of Chinese CSGs to Hawaii and California for the next decade.

More range is fine. The more the better.
In 2021 China demonstrated a FOB (fractional orbital bombardment) missile / rocket system with a HGV. Since this can orbit the planet technically it has "unlimited range". How's that for range, it doesn't get any better than "unlimited".
but...
How much is the cost? Now here's the problem. Such a weapon system may play a specialized role, but its cost prohibitiveness guarantees it will never play a large role in projecting power, unless there's some massive tech upgrade to drop the cost. Perhaps there will be an anti-ship variant in the future 10+ years from now, but that is just speculation.

I believe the DF-26 will play a large role because it is cheap enough to be mass produced in large quantity or at least sufficient quantity. It's range is not bad, definitely an improvement over the DF-21.
The key for winning the Pacific War of the future is to juggle 3 variables and find the right comprise between: cost, quantity, and range
Well said. DF-26 is at the right cost for a mass produced long-range ballistic missile. Beyond that, in case you want more range, missiles are going to get super-expensive very quickly and to a point where you could produce multiple long-range cruise missiles or smaller ballistic missiles for the cost of a single very long-range ballistic missile. This is where the utility of a large bomber force, carrying multiple cost-effective long-range cruise missiles and/or short-to-medium range air-launched ballistic missiles to intercontinental ranges, comes.
DF-26 in the views of today may no longer be sufficient.

No matter how powerful a DF-26's strike can be, DF-26 is still very much a ballistic missile, meaning that the tasks of predicting and estimating its trajectory before commencing interception would be made easier for the defending side, especially when the defending side is well-versed in ABM technology like the US.

For that, I think that by now, China should have been going full throttle with the development work of these:
1. Longer range hypersonic glide vehicles (HGV), i.e. DF-27; and
2. Hypersonic cruise missiles that can be launched from ships, submarines, fighters, bombers and TELs; plus not forgetting
3. Advanced SAM systems that can reliably deal with acute threats possed by HGVs and HCMs.
 
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defenceman

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hi
China need to heavily invest in one of the South American country until
unless China invest in one this country and keep a permanent base Naval
and missile USA will not fear some its a saying keep your back secured
as long as USA has to look over the shoulder they keep on putting more &
more pressure on China one way or the other
country whom I’m taking about can be proposed by some senior member on
this forum with know how about the area of interest
thank you
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
(1) Every kind of stuff is pretty much legal so far as it is non-chemical, non-biological and non-nuclear.

(2) During wartime American SSNs & Carrier-based tactical aviation will sink your merchant fleet anyway whether they carry containers full of anti-ship/land-attack cruise missiles or carry containers full of consumer goods. Might as well put some of your merchant fleet to unconventional war use and try to do damage to the enemy.

(3) Pretty sure America & its allies have similar cruise missile containers carrying Naval Strike Missiles & Tomahawks themselves.

Although the illustration shows missiles being launched from container ships, I think the more likely scenario for these launchers is rapid deployment in forward areas such as Penghu or Taiwan Island.

The launchers can be quickly transported using civil infrastructure and can provide a rapid strike capability against any possible counter landings or ships coming into range to bombard these forward areas with their own cruise missiles.
 

Chilled_k6

Junior Member
Registered Member
Although the illustration shows missiles being launched from container ships, I think the more likely scenario for these launchers is rapid deployment in forward areas such as Penghu or Taiwan Island.

The launchers can be quickly transported using civil infrastructure and can provide a rapid strike capability against any possible counter landings or ships coming into range to bombard these forward areas with their own cruise missiles.
Such as deploying from railways.
 
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