PLAAF Munitions
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
Thanks for all the info guys..Thaks for the translator link. I will check it out.
By my judgement based on what has been posted here the PGM of the PLAAF are about 20-25 years behind the US...Now if they could figure out the alledged captured JDAM...That would be a step in the right direction for the PLAAF.
Thanks for all the info guys..Thaks for the translator link. I will check it out.
By my judgement based on what has been posted here the PGM of the PLAAF are about 20-25 years behind the US...Now if they could figure out the alledged captured JDAM...That would be a step in the right direction for the PLAAF.
MIGleader
Banned Idiot
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
where are u getting this generation stuff? u.s PGms are probably 3rd generation. China's russian PGM's are 2nd generation(but very capable and robust in general performance). china;s own PGM's are first generation, but that doesnt mean they are as capable as veitnam era PGMs. much better.
What china does not have is the u.s PGM "dream team". Its existing weapons lack variety.
bd popeye said:
My main intrest is how far behind is the PLA in this feild and just what do they have? Lets say the US precision guided munition are 5th generation. Ok..Where is the PLA in this feild? 4th Gen? 3rd Gen?? Just where do they stand??? Thanks!
where are u getting this generation stuff? u.s PGms are probably 3rd generation. China's russian PGM's are 2nd generation(but very capable and robust in general performance). china;s own PGM's are first generation, but that doesnt mean they are as capable as veitnam era PGMs. much better.
What china does not have is the u.s PGM "dream team". Its existing weapons lack variety.
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
Miggy wants to know..
I made it up as an example. For instance..the USN CVN-21 programme is 5th generation CV. Nimitz class CVN is a 4th generation CV. The Russian ADM K class is a 3.5 say. You get it?
But as an person that worked with weapons for a sustained period of time I really intrested in how far along the PLA air launched PGM programme is going. It looks to me in all honestly that they are at the level the US was at the Gulf war in '91. But fret not PLA fans . They will soon close that gap..some what...
Miggy wants to know..
I made it up as an example. For instance..the USN CVN-21 programme is 5th generation CV. Nimitz class CVN is a 4th generation CV. The Russian ADM K class is a 3.5 say. You get it?
But as an person that worked with weapons for a sustained period of time I really intrested in how far along the PLA air launched PGM programme is going. It looks to me in all honestly that they are at the level the US was at the Gulf war in '91. But fret not PLA fans . They will soon close that gap..some what...
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
Here's an interesting "glide bomb" based on the KAB-1500KR that the PLAAF might be interested in:
I think the PLAAF today has similiar-level "smart" bombs technology as USAF in 1991, but the numbers are far smaller. The PLAAF today only has limited numbers of Su-30's and Q-5E/F's with LGB's or TV guided bombs.
I also think there's still a place for unguided, "dumb" bombs. With better ground-attack radar/systems, it's possible to achieve high hit ratio with dumb bombs. The Israelis equipped 8 F-16A's with 2 mk 84's each in Operation Opera (1981 vs. Iraqi Osirak reactor), and they claim all 16 bombs were delivered on target, though 2 were duds and the other 14 successfully exploded.
So given a well trained and equipped AF, I think "dumb" bombs are still very capable in destroying stationary targets with high rate of success. Also, being "dumb" means not successible to counter-measures. For an example, during the Falklands war, the HMS Conqueror's captain opted to use Mk 8 "dumb" torpedos rather than the newer Mk 24 Tigerfish homing torpedos against ARA General Belgrano.
Here's an interesting "glide bomb" based on the KAB-1500KR that the PLAAF might be interested in:
I think the PLAAF today has similiar-level "smart" bombs technology as USAF in 1991, but the numbers are far smaller. The PLAAF today only has limited numbers of Su-30's and Q-5E/F's with LGB's or TV guided bombs.
I also think there's still a place for unguided, "dumb" bombs. With better ground-attack radar/systems, it's possible to achieve high hit ratio with dumb bombs. The Israelis equipped 8 F-16A's with 2 mk 84's each in Operation Opera (1981 vs. Iraqi Osirak reactor), and they claim all 16 bombs were delivered on target, though 2 were duds and the other 14 successfully exploded.
So given a well trained and equipped AF, I think "dumb" bombs are still very capable in destroying stationary targets with high rate of success. Also, being "dumb" means not successible to counter-measures. For an example, during the Falklands war, the HMS Conqueror's captain opted to use Mk 8 "dumb" torpedos rather than the newer Mk 24 Tigerfish homing torpedos against ARA General Belgrano.
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
It is not the issue that dumb bombs can't be relatively precise, being used by a skilled pilot, but that they must, in order to maintain that precision, be dropped from very small ranges. We're talking just few kms, we're talking relatively low altitudes. Puts the plane in much greater danger if the level of precision has to be maintaned.
It is not the issue that dumb bombs can't be relatively precise, being used by a skilled pilot, but that they must, in order to maintain that precision, be dropped from very small ranges. We're talking just few kms, we're talking relatively low altitudes. Puts the plane in much greater danger if the level of precision has to be maintaned.
MIGleader
Banned Idiot
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
For extremely shorat range purposes, dumb bombs will do the job in the hands of a skilled pilot? The PLAAF conducted such excercises using su-27s to drop dumb bombs in 1996. It was a show off force, but a really stupid one. But is it really worthwhile to risk a multi-million dollar plane AND the pilot to achieve this? This is why we have stand-off weapons, which must be guided.
adeptitus said:
For extremely shorat range purposes, dumb bombs will do the job in the hands of a skilled pilot? The PLAAF conducted such excercises using su-27s to drop dumb bombs in 1996. It was a show off force, but a really stupid one. But is it really worthwhile to risk a multi-million dollar plane AND the pilot to achieve this? This is why we have stand-off weapons, which must be guided.
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
Dumb bombs can be dropped precisley when dropped by an experienced pilot. In January 1973 I saw an A-7 Corsair drop a 2000 pound dumb iron bomb on a old Gearing class DD and split that sucker in half.
But MigLeader is correct. Why risk it?? When stand off PGM will do the job.
My point is only that it can be done by highly trained pilots.
Dumb bombs can be dropped precisley when dropped by an experienced pilot. In January 1973 I saw an A-7 Corsair drop a 2000 pound dumb iron bomb on a old Gearing class DD and split that sucker in half.
But MigLeader is correct. Why risk it?? When stand off PGM will do the job.
My point is only that it can be done by highly trained pilots.
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
AFAIK Mk8 was used because Tigerfish at that time was primary antisubmarine torpedo and did not have capability to engage surface targets…
As for dumb bomb I remember seeing video of Croatian Air Force Mig 21bis at training during war. They were train to fly low at high speed and attack targets whit 250kg dumb bombs… Accuracy was amazing and they performed surprisingly well, but 3 were shot down whit sa-7 and sa-14 MANPAD.
So well train pilots are more then capable to destroy targets whit dumb bombs but doing so they come in the range of enemy’s low level air defenses… It is far better to destroy target from safe distance whit smart bomb then losing fighter and pilot to few thousand bucks MANPAD fired by Bedouin that has a lucky day…
adeptitus said:
AFAIK Mk8 was used because Tigerfish at that time was primary antisubmarine torpedo and did not have capability to engage surface targets…
adeptitus said:
As for dumb bomb I remember seeing video of Croatian Air Force Mig 21bis at training during war. They were train to fly low at high speed and attack targets whit 250kg dumb bombs… Accuracy was amazing and they performed surprisingly well, but 3 were shot down whit sa-7 and sa-14 MANPAD.
So well train pilots are more then capable to destroy targets whit dumb bombs but doing so they come in the range of enemy’s low level air defenses… It is far better to destroy target from safe distance whit smart bomb then losing fighter and pilot to few thousand bucks MANPAD fired by Bedouin that has a lucky day…
