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Colonel
yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!
PLA "Stride-2014" Military Exercise
- Thread starter Phoenix_Rising
- Start date
yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!
Doombreed
Junior Member
Wow. What a great response from the forum. So many yeses. I have set up the paypal account in which you can deposit your fees. I will publish it on the night of July27th (GMT+8) ahead of of the first release by Phoenix_Rising. Pricing schedules and premium membership options will be announced once finalised.
Again, great response guys. Watch this space!
Phoenix_Rising
Junior Member
I tried to focus on working, but the noise of electric drill from upper floor is KILLING me!
I have to admit Chairman Mao's concentration which allow him read in noisy market is not accessible to everyman.:nono:
I gonna get to nearby teahouse to continue.
O!M!G! They begin drilling again!
I have to admit Chairman Mao's concentration which allow him read in noisy market is not accessible to everyman.:nono:
I gonna get to nearby teahouse to continue.
O!M!G! They begin drilling again!
One correction though, the D phase was not 39GA, but 68th Brigade from 16GA. I give a quick summary of rumors, you can continue to give details.
Phase A: 12GA "suffered" a tactical nuclear strike during concentration before assault, lost nearly 30% its strength before even saw a single enemy. Guess they didn't know they're fighting WWIII.
Phase B: 41GA suffered air strike every 10 minutes during pre-positioning maneuver, including 6 chemical strikes all without warning.
Phase C: 20GA being bombed as usual, but managed to disperse their forces. However, was still slaughter by Blue ground forced.
Phase D: 16GA same as above, but their type 99A are good enough to kill most of the blue armor, and a special forces raid on killed the command post (which end up being a suicide mission) caused enough confusion on blue and made a successful assult and Red won a pyrrhic victory.
Phase E: 10GA. no leaks yet, Red lost.
Phase F: 47GA. no leaks yet, Red lost. News report said they had to do a emergency camouflage when "enemy satellite flew over head" . I guess if they didn't good enough camouflage, they'll eat a tactical nuke.
Phase A: 12GA "suffered" a tactical nuclear strike during concentration before assault, lost nearly 30% its strength before even saw a single enemy. Guess they didn't know they're fighting WWIII.
Phase B: 41GA suffered air strike every 10 minutes during pre-positioning maneuver, including 6 chemical strikes all without warning.
Phase C: 20GA being bombed as usual, but managed to disperse their forces. However, was still slaughter by Blue ground forced.
Phase D: 16GA same as above, but their type 99A are good enough to kill most of the blue armor, and a special forces raid on killed the command post (which end up being a suicide mission) caused enough confusion on blue and made a successful assult and Red won a pyrrhic victory.
Phase E: 10GA. no leaks yet, Red lost.
Phase F: 47GA. no leaks yet, Red lost. News report said they had to do a emergency camouflage when "enemy satellite flew over head" . I guess if they didn't good enough camouflage, they'll eat a tactical nuke.
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Phoenix_Rising
Junior Member
YES, 68th combined battle brigade of 16GA, thankyou for the correction! There are rumors say hese 99s are second-hand tanks from 38/39GA.
Now I am really curious what the scenarios and setups were, if the participants in each phase had the chance to learn what happened in the other phases or if it all happened simultaneously.
Were there only ground forces participating on the Red side? Did the Red side have air or naval support available? Assuming they did not, or had very limited air support, then it would be pretty realistic in terms of actual circumstances when China's ground forces would have to engage a top tier opponent.
It sounds like the Phase A Red team wouldn't have done very well even against a conventional bombardment, aerial or otherwise, if they were massing their forces. Was it the Korean War scenario had MacArthur gotten his way with nuking China?
Anyways, will you knowledgeable folks be able to provide a more detailed orbat for each side in each phase? I wonder if the Red teams had any helicopter elements.
Red army had helicopter elements. It is said that the 16th GA's Brigade which won the phyrric victory at last, used nine Mi-171 helos with the brigade's recon troops (Special Forces/Spetznas so to speak) in a daring suicide assault against the enemy HQ.
The point was not that they had no air-force on their side (they had), but that the other side had UNLIMITED airforce and WMDs.
The point was not that they had no air-force on their side (they had), but that the other side had UNLIMITED airforce and WMDs.
Yep, the opfor had overwhelming air superiority, EW superiority, constant on call artillery and air strikes, access to spam WMDs, and by the sound of things, near omniscient recon.
The exercise has been compared to the kobyashi maru scenario in star trek.
Hydropod over on CDF made a good summary of the first four exercises a while ago:
Stride 2014 Zhurihe A (NJMR):
Ate a tactical nuke on motor pool losing 50% of support vehicles and assets as soon as exercise started, then forced to make a 300km assault on track whilst under repeated airstrikes, losing another 30% of forces enroute.
Stride 2014 Zhurihe B (GZMR):
Learnt from A, split forces with half the force tranported on trains, OPFOR conducted NBC strikes again, and airstrikes on 10 min intervals.
Stride 2014 Zhurihe C (JNMR):
Took a total of 6 (SIX!) NBC strikes in 24 hours, and non stop air strikes, reached assault staging area but was blanketed by OPFOR air/arty/gunship strikes for 30mins, followed by another NBC attack and then OPFOR amoured counter-attack.
Stride 2014 Zhurihe D (SYMR):
Only win so far, and that was from a lucky successful attack on a forward CP by the brigade recon company which was "wiped out" in the process. Brigade suffered over 70% losses to its armoured and infantry battalions and then survived OPFOR NBC strikes and counter attacks to secure first win.
The exercise has been compared to the kobyashi maru scenario in star trek.
Hydropod over on CDF made a good summary of the first four exercises a while ago:
Stride 2014 Zhurihe A (NJMR):
Ate a tactical nuke on motor pool losing 50% of support vehicles and assets as soon as exercise started, then forced to make a 300km assault on track whilst under repeated airstrikes, losing another 30% of forces enroute.
Stride 2014 Zhurihe B (GZMR):
Learnt from A, split forces with half the force tranported on trains, OPFOR conducted NBC strikes again, and airstrikes on 10 min intervals.
Stride 2014 Zhurihe C (JNMR):
Took a total of 6 (SIX!) NBC strikes in 24 hours, and non stop air strikes, reached assault staging area but was blanketed by OPFOR air/arty/gunship strikes for 30mins, followed by another NBC attack and then OPFOR amoured counter-attack.
Stride 2014 Zhurihe D (SYMR):
Only win so far, and that was from a lucky successful attack on a forward CP by the brigade recon company which was "wiped out" in the process. Brigade suffered over 70% losses to its armoured and infantry battalions and then survived OPFOR NBC strikes and counter attacks to secure first win.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
It wouldn't have been simultaneous as blue force opfor was the same for all.
With how differently all the phases were, I don't think having any knowledge about what happened in previous phases would have helped at all.
If anything it might have proved a disadvantage if that knowledge influenced your preparation for your own phase, and it may well have been designed into the exercise to punish any commander who tried to be 'too clever' by setting up his forces trying to counter what happened in previous phases.
In terms of Opfor or specific scenarios, I would not read too much into things. In that aspect, the exercise was not meant to be realistic at all. The red force were thrown against worse than worst case scenarios and facing a foe superior than any on the planet. Not even the US can hope to achieve that kind of dominance over China in any land war outside of the CONUS, and need I point out how ludicrous a scenario it would be for the PLA to be waging an all out ground in Kansas?
I think the key focus of these exercises is to drill a very basic but often ignored principle of warfare - no battle plan survives contact with the enemy.
The key skills they are testing and developing is the ability to recover from what would be a knockout alpha strike for most armies, and then rapidly adapt to the situation you find yourself in with vastly diminished resources and facing an overwhelmingly superior foe.
If this is indeed the mentality and the skill set the PLA is trying to foster and develop in its officer corps, and I think the PLA would be able to respond to an alien invasion far better than any other military. If China should find itself in a scrap with another top military power, I think it will do better than what most might expect as well.
The downside is that the PLA will probably not be as clinical as most western armies when it comes to crushing hopelessly outclassed foes, and will probably take higher casualties than western armies.
I would say that it is realistic in the sense of worst case scenarios. It is not that far out to have a nuclear armed Japan and a conflict between China and Japan+US+others that escalates to China's ground forces being on the receiving end of NBC weapons and constant conventional bombardment with minimal or no air support.
It could also be the case in conflicts over islands where China is on the defensive, understanding that these are not amphibious nor coastal defense exercises. For example if China takes Taiwan either peacefully or by force after which these units are sent to garrison the island or expand the beach head and then comes under attack.
Besides from what you said regarding plans changing and adapting I think these scenarios are also designed to prompt the participants to do something daring and push their own envelope like the special ops raid. There is probably still a lot of inefficient conservative thinking among the PLA units in that they are not making full use of their modernized equipment and improved capabilities.
This deeply rooted attitude came to being partially by design with concepts like people's war (which was proven a fail in this age in the 2003 US-Iraq war) which in turn resulted from the historical technological limitations of the PLA much of which no longer apply. Once they learn their expanded limits I think they will be able to be as effective and efficient as possible in dealing with both superior and inferior opponents.
That said, clearly these particular exercises are not meant to train for dealing with inferior opponents, full combined arms exercises with co-ordination of ground, air, and naval forces would be needed for that.