PLA Squad and Platoon

Well, I have to made some correction for netspider.

A typical US Army Squad's size can vary depending on type of unit:

1 fireteam of 5 men and 1 fireteam of 4 men and the Squad Leader (for light infantry).

for the mechanized infantry, it's up to 16 soldiers per squad divide in 2 team (each team is assigned to a section, the word section is use for armor/vehicule unit only, each section is 2 vehicule)


A Canadian Infantry SECTION (we called them section in Canada, not squad) is made of 8 soldiers, 2 team leader, 2 rifleman, 2 gunner and 2 grenadier

Well, there's multiple reason why there's no loader in the US Army and Canadian Army structure.

1st: Each soldiers have to carry ammo for the team's machine gun. Each soldiers have to carry a drum of 200rounds for the machine gun.

2nd: We have removed the loader or assistant gunner because it was useless, before, the assistant or the loader was helping the gunner fed the ammo belt and changing the gun's barrel when it overheated, but with the SAW, those jobs became much more easier.

3rd: The 5.56mm NATO round is also lighter than the 7.62mm, so you don't have to dedicated a soldier to carry ammo, each guy can carry some and it wouldn't affect so much, since each 200 rounds drums of 5.56mm is 3.1kg, it's still somehow heavy but it's lighter than the old 200 7.62mm belt...Those were really heavy...

4th, we don't have loader/assistant gunner for 5.56mm MG but we still have them for 7.62mm MG. The C6/M240 (Canadian and US version of the FN MAG) team usally have a assistant gunner/loader, but they have weapon (usally M16/C7A1) but their combat load is different.

Red Guard said:

no, i never use "submachine gun" to refer to assault rifle. when i say submachine gun, it's a SMG, it is a submachine gun, type 64, type 85 submachine gun. used in 1984 battle. i have the documentary that shot right on the battlefield.
here is the correct infromation
[qimg]http://www.cjdby.net/UploadFile/2006-2/200621115591663946.jpg[/qimg]
it says, the mech brigade infantry squad includes 10 men (within 1 vehcile)
type 81 machine gun, shooter and loader
type 69 40mm rocketlauncher, shooter and loader
driver, and vehcile weaponary shooter
the rest are 4 riflemen.
and from the screenshot, you could see it's a 63 APC. that's what i am talking about the B class infantry division to more advanced mech infantry brigade.
and theoritically, the loaders are not supposed to take any guns. but i suppose they will ask for submachine gun on the field. after all, people aren't stupid.

Click to expand...

I feel bad for them. They still have to climb into the crappy Type-63. God help them! But why would they still be using the Type-69?

63 will be out in sometime. there are just a lot of 69, so....but i am sure 69 will be out soon. PF98 will be in.

Not to sound like a killjoy here, but does anyone think this is possibly in the wrong section?

submachine guner, normally equipped with silent SMG, only appers in the special force team and reconnassance units. also there are sniper, and ,as far as i know two machine gunners, each one carry one MG in these kind of team. the structure of chinese squad are changing as the replacement of weapons.

I recall reading that the squads with Type-69 RPG will have a gunner and an assistant. The ones with AGL instead will also have a gunner and an assistant. Then there's a SAW gunner and assistant, a designated marksman, and the rest are riflemen. The AGL armed squads probably have one-off RPGs like PF-89.

The reason Type-69 is still in use is that there are so much of them in various versions (including a newer one that fold in half) and so much ammo for them around (i.e. logistical inertia). In one of the articles describing PF-89, it said Type-69 RPG rounds have been upgraded with the same improved warhead. There are thermobaric rounds for the Type-69 as well. Even if Type-69 is retired from regular PLA service, it'll probably be used by reserves, PAP, and militia for many years to come.

I am sort of late with this responce, but still i hope that my info will be of some value. Also i hope to revive this thread. I just did not not notice it before, though in my opinion this is one of the most interesting discussions here.

It seems nothing was said about russian army, so i'll try to fill this gap.
Russian motorised infantry platoon consists of 3 infantry squads. One squad is one vehicle. Each squad is often (not always) divided into 3 sections - first is led by "starshy strelok" (chief rifleman), and usually includes automatic support. Second section is led by sergeant and includes AT support and sniper (if there is sniper), third group is a vehicle. Sergeant is a squad leader, though he is a vehicle commander, he disembarks with the troop, and in combat operates separately from the vehicle, while the third group is led by the vehicle's gunner.

Squad structure depends on the vehicle type. There are 4 main types - BMP-1 squad, BMP-2 squad, BTR squad, and BMP-3 squad. Here is equipment structure in modern russian army:

BMP-1:
9 men including sergeant (squad leader)
-sergeant and chief rifleman have AK-74 with GP-25,
-machinegunner with RPK-74
-two riflemen, have AK-74 with GP-25
-two riflemen, have AK-74 with GP-25, carry RPG-22
-loader with AK-74
-grenade launcher, has AKSU and carries RPG-7

BMP-2:
8 men including sergeant (squad leader)
Similar to BMP-1, but one rifleman/grenade launcher is excluded, RPK is replaced with PKM, and one of the riflemen is replaced with sniper.

BTR:
9 men including sergeant (squad leader)
Similar to BMP-1, but one squad in platoon is antitank squad:
-sergeant and chief rifleman have AK-74 with GP-25,
-two riflemen
-three RPK-74 machinegunners,
-loader with AK-74
-ATGM "Metis" operator,

BMP-3:
8 men including sergeant (squad leader)
-sergeant and chief rifleman have AK-74 with GP-25,
-rifleman, has AK-74 with GP-25, carries RPG-22,
-ATGM "Fagot" operator,
-two PKM operators
-loader with AK-74
-grenade launcher, has AKSU, and may carry RPG-7, or AGS-17, or "Shmel" flamethrower.

These structures though may still vary. Also there is a difference from chinese squad - loader is linked to grenade launcher, not MG.

Aditionally each batallion has artillery company (actually it is called batareya, approximately 70 men with mortars, mortar type may vary, depending on operation, lesser caliber in urban combat), or 2 artillery platoons, and may have specific grenade (AGS-17), or antitank (not in BTR) platoon.

Finally if you know something that wasn't mentioned above, or have new info, please post it, for some reasons i am very interested in more info on the subject. Specifically i am interested in sniper roles in chinese and US army, and what units have ATGMs.

Here in Australia i have noticed that the Army (as well as the US Army) spend massive amounts of money on general light infantry. The usual rifleman usually has a grenade launcher attachment and/or a pistol on most operations and also the squad machine gun is issued a lot more heavily, serving a role of almost a heavy assault rifle. As well as this, even light infantry soldiers are almost all invariably equipped with night vision goggles, individual weapon sights, infa red sights and rifle mounted torches, as well as personal communications. Is it much the same in China when on actual operations or is the Chinese military still more into the masses of light infantry that is only rudmentarily equipped backed up by the special forces that are equipped like standard western special forces/infantry. I ask this because i have noticed in the western world that it seems the distinction between special forces and regular infantry has blurred in regards to the above mentioned equipment and it makes me wonder if it is even worthwile putting tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment on a basic infantry soldier.

any views?

In my (artilerists) obinion it's pointless. It's too expensive to equipt all infatry with fancy toys and exspecially in chinese case the quantity is just so big that it's almoust in possiple.

Technology is a good thing and gives you great possibilities, but it can easily enslave you. It often makes you rely it too much and when it brokes down (it always will) you are left naked in the woods...

Night googles are a good example, the basic use restricst your natural nightvision considerably and constantly relying on electronical devices will weaken your eyesight. So when the batteryes run out in the heat of the battle, you're a blind.

In the Aussie Army they do have some pretty nice toys. Nevertheless the majority of the force still relied on alot of own fashion technique and limited technology.