PLA Small arms

BoraTas

Captain
Registered Member
Recoil dampening already exists. The AA12 from a few years back being the prime example. However from the practical perspective… that’s just the tip of the iceberg of issues.

Capacity, a decent shotgun shell is wider and larger than an automatic rifle cartridge. This limits the size of your magazine capacity volumetrically. An 8 round magazine is about the maximum practical volume for most magazine pouches on par with a standard 20-25 round battle rifle magazine. Which would be more useful? 25 rounds of 6.8x42mm or 8 rounds of 12 gauge? To get more you need a drum 32 round drums get very big for the same space and weight you could pack 75 rounds of 7.62x51mm or 100 rounds of 5.56 NATO. Yeah a 12 gauge will do a lot of damage up close but a so would a good couple of intermediate caliber shots.

Weight. 11lbs to 16 lbs loaded was the AA12 other systems similar issue. To get selective fire you are pushing the receiver of the weapon bigger than a battle rifle. A Saiga 12 has a double wide receiver because the diameter of the 12 gauge is double that of a 7.62x39mm round. That however is a semi

Pressure and loading. The Chinese have a bit of an advantage here as they are probably using a refined version of the QBS09 shell. So closed loop from shell development to shotgun. But automatic and semi automatic shotguns have a hard time due to one of the variables of 12 gauge production. It’s inconsistent. Almost every producer has their own spec on how they make shells. This is why you often see sizes listed in inches. And the pressure loading between manufacturers and types can vary significantly. Which for gas operated automatic actions even manual ones can be a real pain. Either too much gas or too little and the gun won’t cycle properly. It either blows up, blows through ammo uncontrollably, or doesn’t work. The AA12 used a proprietary shell loading designed by its manufacturer to compensate for this.

Range. Shotguns can be fired at range using slugs but that’s a specialty round to compensate for taking the shotgun out of its primary role. Fine for hunting but unnecessary and frankly inefficient to combat. Shotgun’s primarily are for CQB in combat roles or occasionally these days skeet shooting drones. The main purpose being that it’s a secondary weapon. Breaching, Close quarters, swatting flimsy drones. Those don’t need the fully automatic 12 gauge shotgun. They are just a little much.

Then you factor in that this is supposed to be a military weapon… the proliferation of modern armor… even old steel or early soft armor means that in CQB most of the function of a 12 gauge shotgun is gone. In police roles fine some value. But in infantry on infantry. Particularly near peer. You have soft armor being integrated into combat uniforms and soft and hard plates the results of asymmetrical combat being that the chances of getting a disabling hit with a combat pellet even over the torso is slim. Even in automatic. The modern military roles then drop to breaching where you don’t need automatic and shooting drones where you can actually get the same effect with a few well placed rifle shots.
You can correct me if I am wrong. My understanding is current armor plates stop even tungsten-core full-power cartridges. So it shouldn't matter if you are shooting with a 7.62 mm rifle or a shotgun. Both wouldn't penetrate. Isn't shotgun is preferable in such a case? The soldier's chance of hitting an unprotected area would be more. Hits to the armor would also hurt more because of momentum.
 

Aniah

Senior Member
Registered Member
You can correct me if I am wrong. My understanding is current armor plates stop even tungsten-core full-power cartridges. So it shouldn't matter if you are shooting with a 7.62 mm rifle or a shotgun. Both wouldn't penetrate. Isn't shotgun is preferable in such a case? The soldier's chance of hitting an unprotected area would be more. Hits to the armor would also hurt more because of momentum.
You're gonna have to be really up close to make use of that. I feel like the blunt force impact of a battle rifle would be better than a shotgun.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
You can correct me if I am wrong. My understanding is current armor plates stop even tungsten-core full-power cartridges. So it shouldn't matter if you are shooting with a 7.62 mm rifle or a shotgun. Both wouldn't penetrate. Isn't shotgun is preferable in such a case? The soldier's chance of hitting an unprotected area would be more. Hits to the armor would also hurt more because of momentum.
That would depend on the round used. More modern AP in a full power cartridge probably stands a better chance than older of the same. Farther if you can get multiple hits with high velocity Battle rifle cartridges into that solid plate it starts to fail and the energy transfer can be debilitating.
Besides that top of the line armor is only going to be available to top military and even then due to weight, inflexibility and expense isolated to specific areas of the body.
More of the body is likely to have soft armor optimized vs fragmentation effects. Like say buck shot. Where even a SCHV steel core FMJ would penetrate. Soft Kevlar and Aramid armor and helmets was designed more for fragmentation effects from artillery air burst than direct infantry engagement.
Well shot guns have a longer effective range than most people think they also have a smaller energy transfer.
 

tygyg1111

Captain
Registered Member
Does it have fully automatic capability or is it limited to semi-automatic?
Judging from the fire select switch (appears same as QBZ191), it looks to be automatic capable. This also matches with the sketch from the previous post, showing 3 fire settings.

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1717400705627.png
 

Aniah

Senior Member
Registered Member
Interesting, I think it might be a burst function as full auto will be hard to control.
I highly doubt that since China doesn't have a history with burst weapons and the recoil is a lot harder to control with burst than full auto. Burst fire does not give the user enough time to adjust their aim. From almost every source I can find and heard from, burst fire is absolutely awful and borderline useless.
 
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