PLA Photos & Videos

plawolf said:

China sent two teams, the PAP team and a PLA 'Snow Leopard' team. They took first and second place, with the Canadians coming in third.

It is interesting that the German GSG9 team, which won last year's event did not take part this year. But still, when you look at the teams that did take part, taking the top two spots is a very impressive achievement.

It is noteworthy that this previously unknown PAP unit managed to beat the more famous Snow Leopards, who were the on-call guys for the Beijing Olympics security. I wonder if the use of foreign weapons had anything to do with it. The PAP seems to have more funding and leeway to buy and use foreign small arms and accessories, and if these guys were the PAP's top pick, chances are they would have had plenty of opportunity to play with foreign kit before the event. The PLA is more strict in only letting its troops use standard issue weapons and gear, so I wonder if that might have skewed things a little in terms of head-to-head between the two Chinese teams.

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Looking it over again I think the sig 550 was just a little show and tell, so the M4 was likely the teams use.

The camoflage, shirts and the carbines. It could still be chinese. I have never seen that pattern before but that means little. Its still a digital pattern and seems like a evolutionary step. The carbine could be a update of the Norico CQ series we would need to see some pictures of the stock and lower to be sure. The fact that the 550 as there means that snow leopard team might have had the option me ties own arms if the team supplied the specific ammo. The loss likely had more to do with the mission profile. Police swat and military commandos do not always overlap it training. So a competition built around a law enforcement swat team may not be as suited to a commando unit.

Well here is the list of activities during the course of the event. It does fit the SWAT profile more than SpecOps, with more focus on CQC and urban combat over field endurance, but the night ops missions should more than compansate as you do not expect SWAT to do a lot of training with NVGs and the like. All in all, the choice of events should not skew the results too much as the kind of things covered in the event should form the core of any SpecOps training anyways.

Day 1: Precision (300 M range)/ FAST 100 Rifle – demonstration of endurance coupled with advanced marksmanship and time management skills.

High Angle Rally (Tower) - Testing endurance with high angle marksmanship skills.

MOE (Methods of Entry Bldg) - will test team endurance, planning, strength, urban obstacle maneuvering, communication, climbing techniques and high angle marksmanship at distances less than 100 meters.


Day 2: Gate to Gate (All 3 Sq Bays) - will test combat marksmanship, climbing techniques, agility, team work and time management.

Man Down (Urban Area Section 2) - will test each team’s cohesion, speed, endurance, urban combat maneuverability and ability to accurately engage targets under physical stress.

Aircraft Assault - will test target discrimination, planning, urban obstacle maneuvering, communication, climbing techniques and marksmanship.


Day 3 (night): Spec Ops Rally ( SQ Bay, MOE) - will test combat marksmanship, climbing techniques, agility, teamwork and time management.

Hostage Rescue (CQB) - will test each team’s cohesion, speed, endurance, urban combat maneuverability and ability to accurately engage targets under physical stress.


Day 4: King’s Challenge (UNK Distance, 300m range, Close Quarters Bldg, High Angle, SQ Bay) - Warrior Competition’s signature event is a 10km biathlon style team relay to test planning, endurance, speed, pistol marksmanship, precision shooting at unknown distances, carbine marksmanship, physical fitness, patience, and team work.


Day 5: Tactical Transition (Sq Bay) - will test combat marksmanship, teamwork and time management

Hogan’s Alley (Urban Area 3) - will test combat marksmanship, and time management.

Sniper’s Reach (UNK Distance) - will test the Sniper team’s Range Estimation Skills, Ability to read winds and Sniper Marksmanship.

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Looking over the rest of the materials, it looks like all the teams were allowed to bring in their own weapons and equipment, but the hosts also had weapons and equipment available if the teams did not want to bring their own.

I really doubt an official PAP or PLA team would use knock off M4s if they were bring their own kit. You would expect Type95s or 97s if they had to use ammo supplied by the hosts.

I think the Chinese PAP team bought their own gear, but eithe opted to use western weapons, or were not allowed to, or did not want to use their own.

I can certainly think of a few good reasons why the PAP teams might not want to use their Type 95/97s for an event like this one. Although it is interesting that I cannot find any pictures of the PLA team and the weapons and gear they used.

It would certainly be embarrassing if the PLA team used Type 95s and lost to the PAP team using M4s.

plawolf said:

Well here is the list of activities during the course of the event. It does fit the SWAT profile more than SpecOps, with more focus on CQC and urban combat over field endurance, but the night ops missions should more than compansate as you do not expect SWAT to do a lot of training with NVGs and the like. All in all, the choice of events should not skew the results too much as the kind of things covered in the event should form the core of any SpecOps training anyways.

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that depends on there mission profile a counter terror team sure but a mission scout team not so much. If this was the same PLA team as the olympics then there are other factors to consider.
1bluntly I think the argument could be made that the PAP is the more experienced team. The PLA has operations sure but most of them are limited field work peacekeeping may be some ship boarding . A PAP team especially a swat team in a urban zone is more likely to be active. Although I am sure the party would love to say other wise gun crime in china is a reality and so is both violent and organised crime. Particularly all three together. Especially in urban areas. As such a PAP team is likely on call 24 7 just like their western brethren. Altogether PLA sf by contrast are operating more on a theoretical model. Training over call outs. Nothing beats the field.
2 as a team more likely to be in action the PAP team likely has more operational hours in nod then the pla team.

Looking over the rest of the materials, it looks like all the teams were allowed to bring in their own weapons and equipment, but the hosts also had weapons and equipment available if the teams did not want to bring their own.

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sounds about normal for such events .

I really doubt an official PAP or PLA team would use knock off M4s if they were bring their own kit. You would expect Type95s or 97s if they had to use ammo supplied by the hosts.

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the PLA team on doubt but the PAP team might not. First the PLA team is more likely to have QBZ95-1 which as we all know improved the weapons safety and effectiveness. Whereas the PAP team is more likely to be using older models safety is a must for there line me things in the case of QBZ95 and QBZ97 the weapons have issues of safety. Placement of the safe/fire selector would limit the team and possibly disqualify the weapon from the range. The QBZ95-1 solves this issue but I have never heard of a QBZ97-1 have you? I mean its do able, I am sure but just not in existence. So when you compare safety features of the older type 95 to M4. I have to say I am no expert but if I was running a range and someone showed up with a type 95 or type 97 expecting to compete I would disqualify them.

It would certainly be embarrassing if the PLA team used Type 95s and lost to the PAP team using M4s.

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Only to the Norico fans. Lots of other teams lost with other arms makes. Their is still next year.

"It would certainly be embarrassing if the PLA team used Type 95s and lost to the PAP team using M4s" -PLA Wolf



that wouldn't be embarrassing, it just means that a) the PAP team had better shooting skills or b) the PAP team had better performance that day. Type 95 or M4 they are both good rifles.

escobar said:

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I think they fire rubber projectiles.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

1bluntly I think the argument could be made that the PAP is the more experienced team. The PLA has operations sure but most of them are limited field work peacekeeping may be some ship boarding . A PAP team especially a swat team in a urban zone is more likely to be active. Although I am sure the party would love to say other wise gun crime in china is a reality and so is both violent and organised crime. Particularly all three together. Especially in urban areas. As such a PAP team is likely on call 24 7 just like their western brethren. Altogether PLA sf by contrast are operating more on a theoretical model. Training over call outs. Nothing beats the field.

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Well I'm not sure where you are getting your info, but even though gun crime is not unheard of in China, it is still exceptionally rare in absolute and percentage terms.

Organized crime in China is far more likely to buy off the local politicians and police so they turn a blind eye rather than dare to have a shoot out even with regular duty police, never mind SWAT. In China, organized crime tries hard to stay under the radar, as doing anything bold is almost certain to attract central government attention, and central government officials sent down to investigate are almost impossible to buy off, and they are far more likely to crack down hard on both local officials and organized crime.

I cannot think of a single case of organized crime being involved with a big firefight with Chinese police or SWAT. The only cases of firefights you tend to hear about involve individuals, usually from the countryside in a boarder provence who got guns from across the boarder and use them for armed robbery or murder. But these guys almost always end up dead after a big man hunt, which were sparked by their use of firearms. That kinda proves that they were not the sharpest tool in the box and were unlikely to have the smarts to make it big in organized crime.

Because of all this, I really cannot see how the PAP team would get more experience as I seriously doubt if any of them has ever had to fire his weapon in anger.

2 as a team more likely to be in action the PAP team likely has more operational hours in nod then the pla team.
sounds about normal for such events . the PLA team on doubt but the PAP team might not. First the PLA team is more likely to have QBZ95-1 which as we all know improved the weapons safety and effectiveness. Whereas the PAP team is more likely to be using older models safety is a must for there line me things in the case of QBZ95 and QBZ97 the weapons have issues of safety. Placement of the safe/fire selector would limit the team and possibly disqualify the weapon from the range. The QBZ95-1 solves this issue but I have never heard of a QBZ97-1 have you? I mean its do able, I am sure but just not in existence. So when you compare safety features of the older type 95 to M4. I have to say I am no expert but if I was running a range and someone showed up with a type 95 or type 97 expecting to compete I would disqualify them.

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I really cannot see weapons safety being an issue. The Type 95 and 97s have safeties. The fact that those safeties are placed in an awkward place does not make the guns inherently unsafe to use, just troublesome for the operators, but that is not something event organizers would concern themselves with.

Actually, I have heard of a Type 97 mod, not sure it its called the 'QBZ97-1', but it exists and should be hitting the market soon if it hasn't already, and it is a Type 97 with redesigned trigger pack to make it harder to convert the guns for automatic fire after the farce of the Canadians revoking the export clearance of the original Type 97s (which seemed like a pretty stupid and hypocritical thing to do, considering the fact that the earlier civilian model export Steyr AUG widely available in the US and Canada had an unchanged trigger pack to the full auto version and would be extremely easy to convert back to full auto).

Only to the Norico fans. Lots of other teams lost with other arms makes. Their is still next year.

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Well, if the Snow Leopards used to beat the PAP team when both were using the same guns, but the PAP team came up on top when they used weapons guns while the Snow Leopards stuck to Chinese guns, that would be pretty damning for the Chinese guns.

I always thought the Type 95 was perfectly good for frontline use, but for special forces, the better ergonomics and flexibility from all the accessories options as well as a few inherent advantages of the conventional vs bullpump design might make a meaningful difference under certain conditions.

SteelBird said:

I think they fire rubber projectiles.

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No, live ammo. This is an exercise in nerve and trust, and is actually pretty tame in terms of such exercises. It is common practice for SEAL team members to take turns playing the hostage in live ammo room clearance exercises for example.

Most Police Swat teams never get beyond the Van, that said even those that do rarely get to a gunfight. but still setting up there sniper moving to the door is better then training. On top of Which Those few cases where they do breach still it's rare when resistence happen. Most swat missions are not even baracades dispite what movies would have you think. most are just security, Search's and high risk arrests.
I really doubt China is a Crime less nation particularly in highly populated areas. Mind you I am not saying Chinese citys are lawless I am saying that it's likely little better then there European Asian or American Equivilents.

As for the Safety It's a issue of the weapons safety and Range safety. To you it might seem a techniquality but its a issue this is a issue for the Range Safety officer and they have too be strict. when you have lots of arms on a Range the chances of a accident go up And the position of that Selector is tant amount to no Safety at all. So if that was the reason for the M4 then that was the Reason. The PLA team still came in second and that's impressive as hell. The Teams participating are no slouches. It's a poor handy man who blames his tools.

Now You brought up the Canadian ban on the QBZ97. First Don't Take it persinally. The Ban was not only targeted at the Type 97 second it's a common issue. a little Earlyer in the decade A lot of M76 Zastava rifles were inported into the US. They never left the Wearhouse ATF pointed out the the Zastiva's operation was nothing more then a scailed up AK firing the 7.92 x 57mm Mauser round. Zastiva even left the sear in although the Trigger was Semiauto. The weapon's sear was the issue. Firing a 7.92 x 57mm Mauser round is a punch in auto uncontrolable. it took years of haggling before another company stepped in and said they would chop up the "bad" parts and make "Good" parts so parts of the weapons could be inported.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Most Police Swat teams never get beyond the Van, that said even those that do rarely get to a gunfight. but still setting up there sniper moving to the door is better then training. On top of Which Those few cases where they do breach still it's rare when resistence happen. Most swat missions are not even baracades dispite what movies would have you think. most are just security, Search's and high risk arrests.

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Indeed, but those kinds of ops don't really do much to prepare you for events like this.

I really doubt China is a Crime less nation particularly in highly populated areas. Mind you I am not saying Chinese citys are lawless I am saying that it's likely little better then there European Asian or American Equivilents.

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No one is saying China is some lawless utopia, so I don't know where this 'crime less nation' talk comes from. But the fact remains that gun crime is exceptionally rare in China, whereas it is commonplace in the US and not all that rare in some European cities. That means that your average US SWAT team is far far more likely to face criminals armed with guns. Facing criminals armed with guns is a totally different thing to facing criminals armed with knives.

As for the Safety It's a issue of the weapons safety and Range safety. To you it might seem a techniquality but its a issue this is a issue for the Range Safety officer and they have too be strict. when you have lots of arms on a Range the chances of a accident go up And the position of that Selector is tant amount to no Safety at all. So if that was the reason for the M4 then that was the Reason.

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Well I'm sorry but that just isn't so. Unless you have some evidence that there is something wrong with the safety on the Type 95 where the safety does not work properly, then there isn't a safety concern. The event organisers set the safety rules which should clearly state when and where weapons must be made safe on the range. If the operators do not follow those rules, they are penalised or outright disqualified.

The event organisers don't care if your gun is awkward to use the safety, that is not their problem. They just care you make your weapon safe when you should, and again, unless there is a serious fault with the weapon, making the weapon safe when you need to is not an issue.

The PLA team still came in second and that's impressive as hell. The Teams participating are no slouches. It's a poor handy man who blames his tools.

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Unless you want to argue that all those aiming aids and accessories we have seen on the guns the PAP and other teams have been pictured with makes no difference to the performance of the gun and user, what weapon, and more importantly, what aids and accessories they are compatible with, can and does make a difference. I think this is an area where the PLA could do with being a bit more flexible on, especially when it comes to their SpecOp units.

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