I think people under estimate how big of an advantage all aspect stealth over large range of radar spectrum is over current fifth gen.
PLA next/6th generation fighter thread
- Thread starter Blitzo
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Just curious: does "all aspect stealth" include stealth from the vertical top angle? i.e., satellite angle. If not, a nation can construct a Starlink-size radar-satellite net to detect any 6-gen aircraft, can't it?
Obviously it can’t be from top down unless it is shaped like a needle. What I meant is frontal, side, and rear all have VLO signature across radar spectrum. Fifth gen focus mostly on frontal signature reduction. Having vertical slabs kill any chance of side RCS reduction comparable to frontal reduction.
Given all of the expected capability improvements and upgrades over the J-20 and J-35, this question certainly come to mind - How much will (or if I shall say, should) the J-XD eventually cost?
We've seen how the USAF top brasses in the Pentagon have been scratching their heads bald and shiny over their manned components of the NGAD for years, with the price tag at the beginning marked at a staggering 300+ million USD per airframe (which is almost the cost of one 054A/AG FFG). And now, the DAF believes that the manned component of the NGAD having a unit price tag around the ballpark of the F-35 is getting rather challenging to achieve, more so when considering the multitude of programs across the USAF which are also fund-thirsty as well (B-21, CCA, NGAS, E-7, Sentinel ICBM etc).
Frankly, I don't see how China is looking to field J-XDs in the low triple-digits only, especially given that these J-XDs are expected to serve well past the middle of this century.
We've seen how the USAF top brasses in the Pentagon have been scratching their heads bald and shiny over their manned components of the NGAD for years, with the price tag at the beginning marked at a staggering 300+ million USD per airframe (which is almost the cost of one 054A/AG FFG). And now, the DAF believes that the manned component of the NGAD having a unit price tag around the ballpark of the F-35 is getting rather challenging to achieve, more so when considering the multitude of programs across the USAF which are also fund-thirsty as well (B-21, CCA, NGAS, E-7, Sentinel ICBM etc).
Frankly, I don't see how China is looking to field J-XDs in the low triple-digits only, especially given that these J-XDs are expected to serve well past the middle of this century.
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Let’s try to avoid sino ngad or sino cca since I think it does disservice to Chinese programs.
I am curious now if we will have 2 6th gen programs. One for Air Force and the other that’s a little smaller and for navy. If they are doing a STOVL fighter then it would make sense for the next one to be able to takeoff from 076 and aircraft carrier.
I am curious now if we will have 2 6th gen programs. One for Air Force and the other that’s a little smaller and for navy. If they are doing a STOVL fighter then it would make sense for the next one to be able to takeoff from 076 and aircraft carrier.
I do recall a certain Yankee & Co. podcast from sometime during or immediately after Fujian's 1st sea trial in May this year, of which they discussed about China's next aircraft carrier (004).
Somewhere in the podcast (I don't know where the podcast is, as I only heard that particular segment on the 004 from a cutout video (切片)), Yankee & Co. did suggest one possible option for the PLAN, where China's carrier-based 6th-gen manned fighter could be a J-XDH (namely a further developed, navalized variant/version of J-XD, i.e. J-XD海) instead of a PLAN 6th-gen fighter design that is completely separate from the PLAAF's J-XD.
Yankee & Co. reasoned that having two separate 5th-gen fighter programs right now is already really not easy/quite challenging (挺不容易了) (which I believe to be referring to money, manpower and material resource allocation and usage). Hence, they reasoned that it could/would be much easier for the PLAN to "hitch a ride" (搭便车) off the PLAAF's J-XD program.
They also mentioned that during the FC-31's first flight in 2012, PLAN representatives were already present at the site. That was still many years away from what we associate with the carrier-based J-35. Therefore, it is quite reasonable if the PLAN decides to repeat the same for the development of their own carrier-based 6th-gen manned fighters.
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reading this, it would seem to me that NGAD and CCA aren’t close to happening. I would guess closer to 2040 than 2030. Which means, China is essentially going to be defining what 6th gen look like.
chinese UCAV will be very interesting as I said before. The engine choice, size and speed and design have to revolve around your 6th gen philosophy.
Even if they can do what 055 did for destroyers they’d be the trend setter.
The best NGAD is probably the B-21 if one assumes future airspace will always be contested and never dominated especially near your opponent's front yard with a good home security system linked to a 24/7 neighborhood watch network. A good analogy is the current SSN trend where stealth is the enabler to allow subs to launch their land attack missiles in the hot zone rather than a more traditional hunter-killer role (i.e. under-sea dominance).
Air superiority is meaningless unless you can affect events happening on the ground. Just like the Ukraine War shows artillery is still king on the battlefield when neither side (Ukraine + NATO vs Russia) has overwhelming force (3+ to 1), perhaps we should go back and look at WW2 European Theater where fighters were used more as escorts/protectors to be strategic bombers.
In context of the discussion about "whether it is worth mentioning improved stealth as a feature of 6th generation aircraft" I think it is actually being stated in an accurate way.
Further, one has to define what "all aspects stealth" actually means, and which 6th generation aircraft will pursue it in the first place.
For some aircraft concepts like GCAP, there are features like v tails being retained.
And even if we assume that "all aspect stealth" (whatever it means) will be a feature, is it actually a meaningfully big improvement relative to 5th gen fighters to warrant emphasis when discussing the big changes that a 6th gen fighter will have? I would say, not really.
Putting it another way, the improvement in signature reduction from 5th gen to 6th gen is likely to be far less significant than the improvement in signature reduction from 4th gen to 5th gen.
That is why signature reduction/stealth is often cited as one of the major defining features that 5th gen aircraft have relative to 4th gen.
But the same degree of improvement is unlikely to occur between 6th and 5th, so naturally it is far less notable and is almost not worth mentioning relative to the other features.