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Air Force Brat said:

Exactly my point, I have NO Doubt that it happened just as our US Aircrew has characterized it, it has happened before, it is about respect, and typically in the world at large the flying community is very respectful and considerate of how their actions will affect others. NO US aircrew would do such a thing, not because they couldn't?? but because the risk to those on the "transport category" aircraft is so great!

Its very obvious that none of the pro-commenters are pilots, its also obvious that none have ever been inverted in "any" aircraft. I am a pilot, I have been inverted, to maintain level inverted flight requires enough forward stick to pull -1G, it is a lot of forward stick, it is very disorienting, and it does indeed cause "red out", it is more to the point very counter-intuitive....

Any Pilot in every Professional Air Force on the planet, who participated in such a foolish and disrespectful act would be immediately grounded, and "booted out" of that Professional Air Force, particularly US, UK, Germany, or France!

"BOOTED OUT!" and yes, I do know of some USAF Officers who were indeed "booted out" for far less serious infractions.

Filing a complaint is not about whining, it is about warning the other party that their actions are "un-acceptable" in any regard, it is about building a case, it is about evidence for when you do take action, that is all, and that is all I'm going to say about this case at present.

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Air Force Brat said:

Exactly my point, I have NO Doubt that it happened just as our US Aircrew has characterized it, it has happened before, it is about respect, and typically in the world at large the flying community is very respectful and considerate of how their actions will affect others. NO US aircrew would do such a thing, not because they couldn't?? but because the risk to those on the "transport category" aircraft is so great!

Its very obvious that none of the pro-commenters are pilots, its also obvious that none have ever been inverted in "any" aircraft. I am a pilot, I have been inverted, to maintain level inverted flight requires enough forward stick to pull -1G, it is a lot of forward stick, it is very disorienting, and it does indeed cause "red out", it is more to the point very counter-intuitive....

Any Pilot in every Professional Air Force on the planet, who participated in such a foolish and disrespectful act would be immediately grounded, and "booted out" of that Professional Air Force, particularly US, UK, Germany, or France!

"BOOTED OUT!" and yes, I do know of some USAF Officers who were indeed "booted out" for far less serious infractions.

Filing a complaint is not about whining, it is about warning the other party that their actions are "un-acceptable" in any regard, it is about building a case, it is about evidence for when you do take action, that is all, and that is all I'm going to say about this case at present.

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kwaigonegin said:

I concur with your assessment in regards to the issue of 'respect'. In Chinese military circles, I believe that they do genuinely think that American forces so near to Chinese shores constitute a 'disrespect and violation' for them and as such when no respect is given (in their minds) then no respect is reciprocated.

This is about as plain as it gets which is why I personally think it is an extremely dangerous game we are all playing.

We can argue semantics and legalities bout borders, demarcation, lines etc till we're blue in the face HOWEVER the most important thing bar none is the national psyche! what someone thinks and believe. That triumphs all!

People don't go to war because of what the law books actually say. Every person will say the law sided with them in their own interpretation.
People go to war because they feel disrespected, wronged or slighted in their own minds. It's true on an individual level and it is certainly true on a national level.

In Chinese minds, the belief is that America is extremely disrespectful and vice versa.. PERIOD! As such they conduct their operations with that type of mindset.

I'm not saying who is right or who is wrong but that is what is happening.

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manqiangrexue said:

This post is perfect! This is the only post I've seen of an American who understood the big picture of what happened. Everyone else suddenly turned into lawyers trying to argue semantics about how something wasn't technically illegal or what constitutes unprofessional-ism.

In the real world, it gets simple as this. You spy on me in broad daylight, you disrespect me and I will disrespect you back. Nailed it on the head.

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kwaigonegin said:

You've heard the saying.. in prison everyone is innocent.. To a certain extent there is more profound truth to it than just what is seen on the surface.
Even if someone is LEGALLY found guilty in the court of law, in many of their minds, they do not think so.

In Chinese minds they think American is enroaching their space and 'disrespecting' their sovereignty, in American minds we think.. hold up chief.. we did not really break any international laws therefore why are your panties in a bunch?

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manqiangrexue said:

Whenever you try to back up your assertions with your previous piloting background, I am reminded of the time you told everyone here that they don't understand FAA regulations like you do because you were a pilot and wrote a 500 word essay to explain exactly why Dr. Dao violated the law and would probably end up in jail for the United Airlines incident. Then 2 weeks later, we have UA apologies, protocol overhaul, officer suspensions, and Dr. Dao was awarded an undisclosed amount ($140 million as they say on the Chinese interwebs). So if you were a pilot and you got this wrong, then how much do you think your assurances are still worth?

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Air Force Brat said:

Well, I'm still a pilot "ACE", and you're an "internet expert", "pontificating" on things you don't understand? but of course Kwai is right, it is about respect, and President Trump may well get things worked out with President Xi?? I hope he does

and can I help it if United has poor policy, and a wussy CEO??? I wouldn't have thrown him off for the flight crew, but I sure as hell would have tossed his butt off when he showed up back on my airplane!

Y'all have a nice day, brat out.

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