PLA AEW&C, SIGINT, EW and MPA thread

iewgnem

Senior Member
Registered Member
its not because of legacy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/107h3xn
Booms have 3-4 times better flow rate. So, a 10 minute refueling with a boom on a bomber will become 30-40 minute long slog with a drogue. Its doable but incredibly risky and tiring to be refueling for that long.
They're just talking about the systems installed on USAF aircraft.
Physically due to pressure and diameter it is easier and probably lighter to achieve the same flow rate with a hard line than a flexible line, but it's not a limit, if for operational reasons you want to use a drogue, you can design a drogue to achieve any flow rate, e.g. a dedicated fuselage mounted high flow drogue.

The problem with boom is a dorsal boom receptacles don't work with drogues, so an aircraft with only a boom receptacle can only be refuelled by tankers with a boom, whereas if you design all aircraft to work with drogues then they can all be refuelled by any drogue on any tanker, while you still retain the ability to fast refuel via high flow drogue, or even a boom via a drogue attachment.
 
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Tomboy

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just use a bigger hose and use a bigger receptor on large aircrafts.
Why not just a flying boom anyways then? Plus for large aircraft it'll be really difficult to refuel via drogue due to bad manuverbility, it'll alot easier to have just have such a aircraft fly into position behind the tanker and then have the boom operator do the work of alignment. H-20 might have a issue where you could position the refueling probe considering you ideally want a decently long probe for very large aircraft and have it positioned near center which is an issue for flying wing aircraft due to having tiny noses.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Why not just a flying boom anyways then? Plus for large aircraft it'll be really difficult to refuel via drogue due to bad manuverbility, it'll alot easier to have just have such a aircraft fly into position behind the tanker and then have the boom operator do the work of alignment. H-20 might have a issue where you could position the refueling probe considering you ideally want a decently long probe for very large aircraft and have it positioned near center which is an issue for flying wing aircraft due to having tiny noses.
Because booms are less flexible and you need to install the support system on the tanker? The tanker can’t be MRTT?
 

GiantPanda

Junior Member
Registered Member
Why not just a flying boom anyways then? Plus for large aircraft it'll be really difficult to refuel via drogue due to bad manuverbility, it'll alot easier to have just have such a aircraft fly into position behind the tanker and then have the boom operator do the work of alignment. H-20 might have a issue where you could position the refueling probe considering you ideally want a decently long probe for very large aircraft and have it positioned near center which is an issue for flying wing aircraft due to having tiny noses.

IMHO:

The Boom method is considered more expensive and less flexible. You need a more complicated device that needs an operator and you need the receiving aircraft to include a receptacle system built onto the top of the fuselage. Because it is most efficient with larger aircraft you need to put that receptacle in the forward third of a large aircraft with the boom reaching over the cockpit which creates some anxiety especially since it is mainly out of the receiving pilot's hand and dependent on the boom operator.

IMG_6192.jpeg

Most air forces, outside the USAF, use the probe and droge method. From what I read, pilots in general prefer the probe/drogue way of refueling because of the fkexibility and control.

For existing aircraft that were not designed for air refueling like those based on the Y-9 platform, adopting the probe/drogue method is supposedly far easier than reworking the new variants for a receptacle.

I think using boom method which PLAAF had never used and which really is only widespread in the USAF (USN use the probe/droge exclusively) posed a lot more risk with the current aircraft they and they've already shown what they are using going forward:IMG_6194.jpeg
IMG_6195.jpeg

That said, maybe they'll experiment with the H20? But it is unlikely with variants of their current inventory.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Just for note - Here's one of the more extreme close-call cases with a boom refueling from the USAF.

(Note - The to-be-refueled aircraft is not an E-8, but an E-3.)

Besides - Probe-and-drogue refueling for larger aircrafts (i.e. special mission aircrafts, bombers) can be done with using larger pipes and more powerful pump systems onboard the tanker compared to similar methods of refueling for smaller aircrafts (i.e. fighters) to compensate for the longer refueling durations. This has always been done with the YY-20A.

That particular finding from the US could also be due to the lack of similar counterpart systems in the US. The US mostly conducts probe-and-drogue refueling for USN fighters and USN/USMC helicopters, whereas the larger aircrafts in both the USAF and USN (bombers, transporters, tankers and special mission aircrafts) only use the boom refueling method.
 
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The Observer

Junior Member
Registered Member
For refueling less maneuverable aircrafts, PLAAF can always try the hybrid "Iron Maiden" method, aka boom but with drogue end.

It's stiffer and more directable like the boom, so needs less correction from the receiving aircraft, but with the compatibility benefit of the drogue. PLAAF just need to design it as an integral component instead of the adapter method that the original "Iron Maiden" uses.
 

Tomboy

Junior Member
Registered Member
Because booms are less flexible and you need to install the support system on the tanker? The tanker can’t be MRTT?
KC-46 supports both boom and drogue at the same time, if PLA truly wants to build large credible strategic fleet consisting of H-20s and transports, they'll need delicated tankers anyways. Even your idea of having a larger hose requires a delicated tanker due to a limit on how large the wing refueling pods can be, which is also why we've only seen H-6s and KJ-500As refuel from the central station on YY-20s due to central station having larger transfer rate. Refueling from boom is also safer for massive aircraft, manuvering a couple hundred ton aircraft to connect to a hose behind a tanker is very difficult and risky especially due to constraints(stealth etc) the reciever probe might be placed in a weird position.
 

by78

General
Y-9Z and KJ-500A.

54658572593_a687e74204_o.jpg
54658580254_bda79b0250_o.jpg
 
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