Participate in CTF-150?

Many other factors also affect an outcome of a battle. so although the PLAN are "brown water navy folks." they are well displined, trained and pack a punch.

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I've studied the PLAN for over two years now. I am by no means an expert. But by my own personal standards(based on 20 years of service in the US navy) and after reading this very unbiased report by the USN intelligence..

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showthread.php?t=3020

The main reason is a lack of actual at sea time operating their equipment/training. Training = General quaters, firefighting ,damage control. Operating weapons systems. Spending time at sea so the sailors don't get "comfortable" in port. Ships are made for sea along with their sailors. It is my understaning for a good source that PLAN ships spen only about 30-45 days at sea a year. USN ships, in contrast, spend 168 days a year at sea. USN CV's spend more time that that at sea. Close to 180-190 days yearly when not in a re-fit cycle.

I also feel that the yearly assignment of new conscripts requiring the ships to remain in port from Nov-March yearly is a major disruption to training.

Blue water Navy? Hardly. I realize the PLAN does not have the comittments to deploy worldwide but the PLAN is seriously lacking in the ablity to deploy. There is a lack of foward bases. Which makes for a lack of logistics. There is a lack of logistic ships & helos....

Because any Navy has a lot of nice new ships does not mean they know how to operate theose ships.

Just my opinion based on my naval experience.

Its good to hear from someone with real experience in this field. I guess the question is, how aware is the PLAN of its training shortcomings, and what are they doing to change the situation if so? Has there been an increase in such things as time at sea alongside the increase in spending over the past 10-15 years?

f.hind said:

Its good to hear from someone with real experience in this field. I guess the question is, how aware is the PLAN of its training shortcomings, and what are they doing to change the situation if so? Has there been an increase in such things as time at sea alongside the increase in spending over the past 10-15 years?

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Thank you. I am humbled by your kind comment.

They have to know. Last year when the PLAN higharecy observed the USN in it's Valiant Shield excesise I'm sure they then realized how far behind the curb they were. The PLAN needs more money for operation of it's forces at sea.

To the best of my understanding the PLAN is spending much more time at sea than 10-15 years ago. But in my opinion it is not enough..

A report from PLA daily:

"本报宁波6月9日电姚伟坤、崔晓龙报道：今天，东海某海域风高浪急，一支登陆舰编队
踏浪出航。途中，编队指挥所接到上级下达的突击登陆战斗任务，舰艇编队立即组成登
陆队形全速驶向登陆点。类似这种紧贴实战的演练，该支队今年上半年已先后组织了20
多次。......."

A landing ship squadron conducted more than 20 landing excercises simulating battle condisions in the first half of this year. That is once a week.

"...演练中，笔者在该支队指挥所用望远镜看到：10余艘舰艇组成4个小间距编队，在
不同登陆点展开抢滩攻击。指挥所既组织大风浪条件下的泛水登陆，又组织小坡度条件
下的抵滩登陆；既有与登陆兵协同防空和对岸火力攻击，又有协同空中武装力量的立体
火力攻防。随机形成的紧张态势，逼着指挥人员不得不随时改变战术。..."

During one exercise, the reporter witnessed >10 ships form 4 groups with close distance and landing on different spot. They conducted amphibious landing (I guess sending out amphibious vehicles) as well as direct landing on beach. They also conducted fire assult and anti air defence, also operations coordinated with aviation forces.

I am just wondering, can anyone place such numbers for other major fleets in the world? I mean it's obvious the USN can place ships at sea for hundreds of days, mainly because of money they can spend on maintnance, smaller costs of sending ships into sea (nuclear ones) and distant bases, traveling betwen which may be considerd a real mission. But what about smaller countries with modern fleets (Japan, UK, France, Italy, Spain) or big countries with big fleets but without money to maintain many ships (Russia). How many days at sea do their ships spend every year? I think it's not realy fair challenging PLAN with USN just yet, since USA is (maybe only in my opinion) the most militaristic nation in the world (given the money they spend on armed forces).

bd popeye said:

Thank you. I am humbled by your kind comment.

They have to know. Last year when the PLAN higharecy observed the USN in it's Valiant Shield excesise I'm sure they then realized how far behind the curb they were. The PLAN needs more money for operation of it's forces at sea.

To the best of my understanding the PLAN is spending much more time at sea than 10-15 years ago. But in my opinion it is not enough..

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Lets hope that the new generation of PLAN vessels spends less time rusting in port and more time at sea working out the creases!

In you opinion, is it a matter of sheer impossibities that the PLAN is not able to participate in this kind of thing, or is it more a matter of not wanting to "lose face" by showing their inexperience? After all, if they wanted to get some real expereience I would have thought participating in an international taskforce would be a great learning opportunity.

China just started to build a real navy in mid 1990s. Before that, it's like 3 army corps floating on the sea.

This brings everything back to full circle. Aside from the political hurdles and the ego issues (losing face), it would be nice for PLAN to do something like CTF-150 because it will give them the experience to strengthen themselves and create some goodwill in the process.

In you opinion, is it a matter of sheer impossibities that the PLAN is not able to participate in this kind of thing, or is it more a matter of not wanting to "lose face" by showing their inexperience? After all, if they wanted to get some real expereience I would have thought participating in an international taskforce would be a great learning opportunity.

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It is not impossible for the PLAN to conduct this sort of operation. I think the higheracy of the PLAN do fear failure in any sort of large scale operation. Thye possibly do not want to show weakness...

Last year in San Diego & near China the PLAN conducted some limited operations & training with the USN.

Nice pics Bd Popeye! Any feedback from these exercises apart from the usual press-releases?