Pakistan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Deino said:

In fact I'm quite sure, PAF would be highly interested in a Flanker type, at best the J-16/16D combo, however at least by all I know, China won't sell.

As such it needs other options and again by my understanding, the J-10C is the best - if not the only viable option.

And based on past experience and also rumours, I expect a first order of about 36 aircraft for 2 Squadrons but overall I expect the purchase of more than 80-85 if not more.

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I think that the PAF would be very interested in a EW fighter variant (the J-16D that you mention). However as we all know it is difficult for China to export J-16.


Anyway, this is exciting news for the PAF. We are going to see more interoperability with the PLAAF and more advanced munitions going to the PAF. There are also new technologies in the J-10C that the PAF will have the opportunity to utilise for the first time in its fleet.

Having three single engine platforms (4 if you count the mirages) is a little strange to me. However viewed from the lens that some of the F-16s they have are 30+ years old now, and the political considerations I guess it makes sense.

Having a common platform with your allies is a good idea, maybe in some future world some PLAAF pilots will get to engage Indians like the Soviets did around the world.

Deino said:

In fact I'm quite sure, PAF would be highly interested in a Flanker type, at best the J-16/16D combo, however at least by all I know, China won't sell.

As such it needs other options and again by my understanding, the J-10C is the best - if not the only viable option.

And based on past experience and also rumours, I expect a first order of about 36 aircraft for 2 Squadrons but overall I expect the purchase of more than 80-85 if not more.

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It's a small detail, but why would China be willing to sell J-10s and not J-16s?

J-16s would be preferable, however I doubt Pakistan could afford them.

Abominable said:

It's a small detail, but why would China be willing to sell J-10s and not J-16s?

J-16s would be preferable, however I doubt Pakistan could afford them.

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China would like to sell them however it is not allowed. The Flankers in China were produced with the agreement of Russia and as such, China is not allowed to sell them.

Think it logically, why would Russia allow China to sell its own Chinese produced Flankers to the world and eat up the export market of the Russian flankers

Overbom said:

China would like to sell them however it is not allowed. The Flankers in China were produced with the agreement of Russia and as such, China is not allowed to sell them.

Think it logically, why would Russia allow China to sell its own Chinese produced Flankers to the world and eat up the export market of the Russian flankers

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Pakistan is not a market for Russia. There's no way India would allow them to export anything like flankers to Pakistan. They had problems with exporting the engines for the JF-17.

I don't think China has shown any interest in exporting it's premium military planes to any other market.

Abominable said:

Pakistan is not a market for Russia. There's no way India would allow them to export anything like flankers to Pakistan. They had problems with exporting the engines for the JF-17.

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Its not about Pakistan specifically. China is not allowed to sell the flankers to any country in the world. These fighters are only supposed to be produced and used in China.

Anyway, Pakistan isn't going to get any flankers

DaTang cavalry said:

I am not sure this is old image or not, The profile picture of the J-10C fighter in Pakistan. We can see the Xiaolong fighter and the J-7PG fighter in the background.

View attachment 80708

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I heard Pakistan prefers F-16 over J-10C. So, it was not true?

A.Man said:

I heard Pakistan prefers F-16 over J-10C. So, it was not true?

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Sorry, but you "heard" Pakistan prefers F-16 over J-10C ... and the conclusion is "that deal is not true"??

In fact I prefer an AUDI Q7 or Mercedes GLE over a Peugeot Scenic, but I simply cannot afford either a Q7 or GLE and second it depends a lot on what source you follow.

If you listen to certain fan-boys at the PDF, Pakistan should have never even thought about the J-10 since F-16s and/or Flankers are better anyway and the Z-10ME which is now under discussion too is juts bad in comparison to an Apache or the Ka-52.
Reality is sometimes quite hard to accept.

It has to be said that we did not get any additional sources about Pakistan's J10. We're still at those unit patches and that one news conference. Why haven't we seen additional new articles about such an imminent service entry?

Deino, in your opinion, how likely is it that A) Pakistan has indeed already signed the contract for J10s and B) that first planes will be shown in Pakistan in March, as that one interview suggested?

Deino said:

Reality is sometimes quite hard to accept.

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Worth noting, that J-10 has to build reputation for itself, too. F-16 is backed by decades of experience(mid-1970s airframe, 50 years mark is within a couple of years), by complete belief in American air industry(within and beyond American borders, "no one was ever fired for buying IBM"), and, quite importantly, by its perceived prestige(american=cool doesn't work just on iPhone in your pocket).

It isn't exactly easy to make someone choose Xpeng/Nio over Tesla. And certainly, it gets easier as more clients drive Chinese premium brands and provide positive feedback.

The only Chinese fighters flying in numbers beyond Chinese borders, until right about now, were J-6,7 and JF-17.
Of those 3, J-6 and 7 aren't really Chinese in their roots, and JF-17 is a tailor-made aircraft for its core customer (who took the brunt of showing that it works for a whole decade before we saw actual orders from anyone else).

Deino said:

If you listen to certain fan-boys at the PDF, Pakistan should have never even thought about the J-10 since F-16s and/or Flankers are better anyway....

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What matters is what the PAF thinks, not fanboys, and I've never heard such statements from within the PAF community. The PAF itself has been very much wanting the J-10C for a long time now.

However, there's a bit of nuance here. The Viper does have an elevated position within the PAF for now, but that's purely due to the organizational structure of the PAF. All the elite squadrons of the PAF have been Viper squadrons for decades. All the Air Chiefs of the PAF are graduates of these elite squadrons, therefore, they all have a Viper background.

With that said though, I bet that if you ask these Viper pilots if they'd like to face Rafales in their Vipers, or with Chinese AESA+PL15s, not a single one of them is going to pick the Viper, because they're not idiots. The math just doesn't add up for the Viper anymore. This is why the same PAF Air Chiefs (who are themselves Viper pilots) have been the ones pushing for Block IIIs and J-10Cs for a decade now, even before the last Viper deal got scrapped in 2016.

And now, with these new platforms being inducted, the 'Elite' status within the PAF will automatically change. Because J-10Cs and Block IIIs will form the new core Elite squadrons of the PAF.