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Mohsin77 said:

... I think you want that to be true bro (and so do I, lolz)... but unfortunately, there is zero evidence in the video to support that claim. That is Zarrar Unit's kill house and those are almost certainly SSG operators doing their daily drills. And even if they weren't, the instructors are confirmed SSG and we can see what they are teaching and analyze it. By the way, I haven't even mentioned their shooting stance. Look at the way they're standing in the kill house trying to aim... too bladed, not squared-up at all, and not putting their weight on their toes... That's basic shooting fundamentals which they're getting wrong... All of this is exactly what you'd expect from a "typical third world" SOF unit, which is what the DELTA operator said.



5-6 years isn't "very old"... If you have newer footage which shows anything has improved, by all means, share it.

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bro just search about National Counter Terrorism Centre (NCTC) Pabbi it is now active and train regular personals from all armed force as well regular members of Civilian Law Enforcement agencies like Local Police

Zarar Company was initially employed to train the initial batches but now NCTC is separate facility for the training of AT and CBQ operations to have basic idea you can read this article [], further you can search more programs from Mahaz series Wajahat has done one programare with Sindh rangers as well in which he showed their facility for training for Urban Operations related AT and CBQ ....

One thing you need to note that AT operations are now not consider Exclusive domain of Special Services Group like Personals of Light Commando Battalion of Pakistan Army are NOT part of SSG but regular infantry personals with special AT and CQB training and their counterparts from Navy and Airforce are also trained for this, the only difference b/w the AT units and regular troop of armed forces in Pakistan is that AT units are specialised units due to additional training NOT the ELITE UNITS therefore these units also perform regular duties with regular troops.

Same is the case with local Police Forces of all provinces you can search their videos

[email protected] said:

bro just search about National Counter Terrorism Centre (NCTC) Pabbi it is now active and train regular personals from all armed force as well regular members of Civilian Law Enforcement agencies like Local Police

Zarar Company was initially employed to train the initial batches but now NCTC is separate facility for the training of AT and CBQ operations to have basic idea you can read this article [

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], further you can search more programs from Mahaz series Wajahat has done one programare with Sindh rangers as well in which he showed their facility for training for Urban Operations related AT and CBQ ....

One thing you need to note that AT operations are now not consider Exclusive domain of Special Services Group like Personals of Light Commando Battalion of Pakistan Army are NOT part of SSG but regular infantry personals with special AT and CQB training and their counterparts from Navy and Airforce are also trained for this, the only difference b/w the AT units and regular troop of armed forces in Pakistan is that AT units are specialised units due to additional training NOT the ELITE UNITS therefore these units also perform regular duties with regular troops.

Same is the case with local Police Forces of all provinces you can search their videos

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... It seems like you're going off on a tangent bud. Are you still claiming that the personnel in that video are non-SSG? Because nothing you posted proves that.

Anyways, getting back on point, just tell me this: Why doesn't the SSG just hire a few retired 'tier-one' contractors to update their CQB program? It doesn't take that much money. Let's say $150K/year x3, will get you three former DELTA instructors for half a million dollars, for an entire year. That's enough time to rigorously train a small group of SSG instructors, who will then go on to redesign the entire CQB training program for the entire SSG. That's a very cost-efficient solution. The benefits of that will also (eventually) flow down to lower level programs like the NCTC, as future SSG instructors update those programs.

Remember how the SSG learned CQB in the first place, like 30 years ago or whenever... (that's why they Low-Port like SF, but wear leg holsters like SEALs, because they were trained by both lolz.) Even if those exchange programs have stopped due to bad relations, we can still hire their best operators as private contractors (which is actually a much better solution for training instructors anyway.)

Mohsin77 said:

just tell me this: Why doesn't the SSG just hire a few retired 'tier-one' contractors to update their CQB program?

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SSG is no more required for AT or CQBs .... their role is different

[email protected] said:

SSG is no more required for AT or CQBs .... their role is different

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Negative. The SSG is required to retain a CQB skillset because the future of land warfare has a CQB component now, simply because the world is urbanizing at a rapid rate. The SSG's purpose is to support Army operations wherever needed, and 'close quarters' are everywhere now. Just look at the terrain in Northern Punjab on both sides of the border. Look at how many cities and towns there are. In an ideal world, you would avoid all those built-up areas in maneuver operations. But what happens if you need to secure 20 blocks of a city in one night, in order to protect an exposed flank of your armored force on the outskirts of that city? Even for the SSG's traditional missions you need CQB e.g. if you want to raid enemy airfields. AFBs contain a lot of buildings. So the SSG better be good at CQB if they want to raid/capture airfields. They need to do it well and do it fast (which seems like a contradiction in terms, but that's why it's so hard.) This means they can't be standing around fiddling with flashbangs for hours.

Also, I highly doubt Zarrar Unit is going away just because we have other units that are going to do the brunt of CT work. Most of those NCTC trained units may be sufficient for handling mickey mouse operations, but what if you come across a serious threat? What if there's a Chechen group that has taken hostages? Those tangos are not like the TTP. They are not a joke. They are highly trained, experienced and organized. Even American 'tier-one' units respect their capabilities. Vanilla LEO units will have neither the skillset nor the assets to deal with a threat of that level. That operation will need to be handled by Zarrar. That's what "elite" units are for. And that's why they better train like actual "elite" units, and not like some SWAT team from 1990.

By the way, I actually had a conversation recently on this forum regarding the over-reliance on SOF units. So it's ironic that I'm forced to have this conversation now. But there's a fine line between over-reliance and necessity. The US has gone too far in one direction, where it relies too much on SOFs, for everything. They wanted SOF to win entire wars, which is just a stupid idea from the start. However, there are certain roles which the SOF needs to handle... (Unless you start training regular infantry since they're in Grade 7 or something, which actually isn't a bad idea lolz.) The problem is that CQB is a skillset which takes a lot of time to learn. It's the hardest skillset to master for infantry and it will be required by the SSG for the foreseeable future.

Mohsin77 said:

Also, I highly doubt Zarrar Unit is going

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Zarrar Unit is intact and its not going anywhere nor I suggested this .... Zarra is a Full Fledge SSG unit so it do have all other skill sets and are required to perform all other operational task as well same as other SSG units not just AT Ops; previously during the early days of WOT they were getting engage more often in AT ops so they came in limelight more and more

Mohsin77 said:

Negative. The SSG is required to retain a CQB skillset

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Nor I am denying this ....

I think we have some communication gap or difference of Understanding of each other POV, therefore I am once again but last time would state my position in summarize manner below

During All of our conversation I maintain the following points

- SSG UNITS are now not exclusively required to perform AT Ops and CQB

- ALL Armed Forces of Pakistan including Civilian LEAs now have units to perform these tasks.

- Army now have Light Commando Battalion (LCB) which now have shrunk the gap b/w Regular Infantry personal and SSG personal in terms of skill sets as LCB personals are selected from regular infantry troops and additionally Trained in AT and CQBs ops so this approach have spread the AT and CQB skill set right up to the level of Regular Infantry who were trained to fight only conventional war but now also have acquired skill of AT and CQB as LCB work with regular infantry; same is the case with Navy and Air force they both maintain their wings of SSN and SSW respectively but also have their regular troops trained on the model of LCB.

- Lastly If I remember correctly our discussion initiated at the point where I ONLY pointed out that Zarar during the initial phase of LCB concept was used to Train troops at SSG facility but now a Separate facility of NCTC Pabbi for AT and CQB training has been established with a comprehensive syllabus and training routine ....

All information could be cross checked by a simple google search ....

[email protected] said:

- Lastly If I remember correctly our discussion initiated at the point where I ONLY pointed out that Zarar during the initial phase of LCB concept was used to Train troops at SSG facility but now a Separate facility of NCTC Pabbi for AT and CQB training has been established with a comprehensive syllabus and training routine ....

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It started with your post 1429, where you claimed that the video I posted as evidence on the SSG's outdated CQB tactics "is not showing the elite SSG operators" for which I asked you to provide evidence multiple times.... But don't worry about. It's all good bro.

NCTC Pabbi Facility

Pakistan Air Force Commandos SSW: PAF ground combatiers under training personals in their initial stage of training once those who clear this stage are send for further training leading to graduation after successful completion in SSG Cherat facility .... earning them Special Services Wing title

The second ship of the Damen OPV - Yarmook Class inducted in PN.....



The second ship of the Yarmook-Class of 2300-tonne multirole corvettes for the Pakistan Navy, PNS Tabuk, was commissioned into the Pakistan Naval Fleet today. PSF had informed our viewers earlier that PNS Tabuk will get commissioned this month.

The state-of-the-art multirole corvette is a highly-adaptive platform and can handle Anti-Surface and Anti-Submarine warfare and for patrolling Pakistan’s EEZ and carries a helicopter and has drone launching and electronic warfare capabilities as well as anti-air weapons/sensors along with modern self-protection and terminal-defence system. Pakistan Navy’s warfighting and patrolling capabilities in the Arabian Sea will get a boost from the two Yarmook-Class corvettes, the first of which had already been inducted last year.

The ships will complement the larger, major warships of the Pakistan Navy. The warships are built jointly by Romania and Pakistan, with DAMEN shipyards building the hull and superstructure and KS&EW Karachi fitting out the warship and integrating weapons capabilities.
The warships are littoral multipurpose corvettes and will be fitted with with a remote weapon station for a main naval cannon, two quad-cell/tri-cell cruise missile launchers (either C-802A AShCM or Harbah dual-use AShCM/LACM) and an E/O CIWS. Another mission module will be kept unused for huma nitarian and disaster relief (HADR), search-and-rescue (SAR), and other missions. But this space can also be used for torpedo launchers, in case of conflict.

The corvettes also feature advanced LPI radars, a modern EW suit, CMS, ELINT/ESM and a close range acoustic weapon. The corvette also has a helicopter deck and hangar, as well as two RHIBs.

Rumors are coming out that J10Cs are also including in this MoU and agreement will be signed on upcoming Chinese
President's visit in coming months ...... there were news circling off late that Pakistan is interested in acquiring 60 units ....

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