Ordinary PLA infantrymen

correction. the second and third picture shows not PLA, but PAP in counter terroist training. Yes they have a difference in uniforms. and the first picture shows just enineer troop(maybe even supply company) that is why they don't have a rifle

petty officer1 said:

correction. the second and third picture shows not PLA, but PAP in counter terroist training. Yes they have a difference in uniforms. and the first picture shows just enineer troop(maybe even supply company) that is why they don't have a rifle

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How in the name of all that is good could you possibily tell them apart (PLA and that PAP)??? (PAP, people's armed police??? wait is it like SWAT or something?)

Also, how did you know it is an engineer company in the first picture? different insignia???

PS. I tried the net, but the net failed me. I cant find any good picture of ordinary Chinese soldiers, instead all I got are these photos of special forces, and tanks. =/

green beret said:

How in the name of all that is good could you possibily tell them apart (PLA and that PAP)??? (PAP, people's armed police??? wait is it like SWAT or something?)

Also, how did you know it is an engineer company in the first picture? different insignia???

PS. I tried the net, but the net failed me. I cant find any good picture of ordinary Chinese soldiers, instead all I got are these photos of special forces, and tanks. =/

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There are plenty of pictures, you are just not looking hard enough. Or you are searching for them with the incorrect criteria. As for the old fashion looking equipment. Trust me some old stuff is way way better than the new stuff. As for helmets, well in Australia we usually don't get them unless we are depolyed somewhere. Also i agree with with good old Golly... the less stuff u carry, the better. A good thing i can think of straight away about the number of stuff they are carrying, is that if for some strange reason u have to ditch some equipment, u can choose what to ditch and do it quickly and maybe survive.
Besides old stuff is usually good stuff.... especially boots.

and onto training. According to some PLA infantrymen, during their entire career in the Army they have only fired 5 rounds.

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God... I fired 3 rounds back in military training in grade 4 in China.

(PAP, people's armed police??? wait is it like SWAT or something?)

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PAP is just that, people's armed police. Chinese equivalent of SWAT is Snow Wolves, except especially trained for counter-terrorism.

^^^ theres two million of them... they could be used as normal infantry...

PAP is for riot control, counter-terrorism, and internal security. I.e. dealing with Chinese people. After 6/4, the PLA no longer will be deployed for internal security. During war (foreign invasion), the PAP would serve as support for PLA. BTW, this is all in the orbat pages in SD, sheesh.

Mr_C said:

There are plenty of pictures, you are just not looking hard enough. Or you are searching for them with the incorrect criteria. As for the old fashion looking equipment. Trust me some old stuff is way way better than the new stuff. As for helmets, well in Australia we usually don't get them unless we are depolyed somewhere. Also i agree with with good old Golly... the less stuff u carry, the better. A good thing i can think of straight away about the number of stuff they are carrying, is that if for some strange reason u have to ditch some equipment, u can choose what to ditch and do it quickly and maybe survive.
Besides old stuff is usually good stuff.... especially boots.

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While I agree that some of the old stuff is way better then new from my personal experience in army I must say that there is no way that I would prefer different type of ammo bags/purses, belts etc. to universal tactical vest.

Reason is simple - your equipment flies around you when you run, weight distribution is terrible, you cant easily reach for the stuff you need(especially ammo) and to say that wearing that shit is uncomfortable is understatement.

On other hand on universal tactical vest we had you have pockets for your ammo, first gear kit, compass and any other equipment you need. Weight is distributed evenly,everything is easily reachable and you don't have anything disturbing your movements.

We have worn helmets regularly and I must admit that compared to old M-1 helmet I had to wear for first few weeks new bK600 kelvar helmet was much more comfortable thanks to smaller weight and it fitted great.

On other hand I hated body armor. That shit still weights to much, body overheats and it is clumsy as hell. Our drill sergeant preferred method of punishment was 6km run whit full equipment and body armor on. Great for losing weight...

And while I agree that less you carry the better there are few things that you joust cant do without(ammo, first aid etc.) and all that will perfectly fit in tactical vest...

Ps. I bet that all that purses and bugs cost more then one tactical vest so I really can't see any reason why PLA/PAP don't use vests...

So now that we acknowledged they are PAP in the 2nd and 3rd pics...


Boy are they quite well armed for border guard duty/internal affairs...I mean, HMG, LMGs, AKs...and I'm not surprised that they are using this old stuff...afterall the PAP receives hand downs from equipment no longer used by the PLA, but that is good enough...they seem better equipped than any army unit that ever existed in the ranks of the KMT and CCP during the Sino-Japanese War, and if these fellas are fighting in their home lands and had a few tricks taught to them by SOF officers for guerilla or underground purposes, these guys have the definite advantage of having more guns than the Vietcong.


While sure we can talk about what PLA doesnt have, and that their new boots are quite bad etc...I mean, compared to the 1930s-40s...
KMT and CCP troops didn't even have adequate food, let alone shoes to wear (they had to make shoes out of straw for some of them), not every man had a rifle, they wore backpacks of most primative types, no helmets, only probably enough ammo for two or three clips for their bolt actions, few machine guns...this was a problem too during the Korean War...

At least now, look at the PLA. Shoes, well fed (i mean, sitting in a barracks dining is a luxury compared to serving under any Chinese army until the latter half the 20th Century), probably at least minimal yet enough pay to encourage boys to enlist, they have HMGs even down to the level of PAP, and their mobility has been increased without heavy clumsy backpacks, and at least they have shoes...I guess the boots just need taking time to improve and get used to, as these boys probably have worn their rubber sneakers too long.

As for 5 rounds a year? WHAT THE? Oh please! If that was true, even I'd expect the average Taliban man to go through several clips just for firing his gun towards the sky when he celebrates. I mean, I guess whoever said that is AN IDIOT, NOT IN THE ARMY, and if that guy is correct, then I guess someone just misread a story of a soldier fighting in the Sino Japanese War and thought it was bout a PLA soldier TODAY (afterall, bolt action rifles only took 5 rounds, and back then KMT/CCP ammo was really really scarce).

green beret said:

.....and onto training. According to some PLA infantrymen, during their entire career in the Army they have only fired 5 rounds. i am not talking about the special forces, or the elite soldiers, just the ordinary ones. 5 rounds, wow, by the end of my first year in ROTC I have already fired up to 40 clips of M4A1 ammos, thats 1200 rounds. How do you expect soldier to fight well in combat if they have never truely fired a gun before? =)

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A college student in a one month training (mandatory for all) will fire more than that. Relying on sources of such quality will only give you what you are looking for. :rofl:

chicket9 said:

So now that we acknowledged they are PAP in the 2nd and 3rd pics...

Boy are they quite well armed for border guard duty/internal affairs...I mean, HMG, LMGs, AKs...and I'm not surprised that they are using this old stuff...afterall the PAP receives hand downs from equipment no longer used by the PLA, but that is good enough...they seem better equipped than any army unit that ever existed in the ranks of the KMT and CCP during the Sino-Japanese War, and if these fellas are fighting in their home lands and had a few tricks taught to them by SOF officers for guerilla or underground purposes, these guys have the definite advantage of having more guns than the Vietcong.

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I'm not convinced that those are PAP units. As for being "well armed", I see mostly small arms common to any light infantry unit.

The PLA is the world's 3rd largest military force by total numbers (~7 million), it should be of no surprise that some of its units are still using older rifles, and organized as light infantry instead of motorized or mechanized.



Current estimates for PLA:
Active troops: 2,255,000
Reserve troops: 800,000
Paramilitary: 3,969,000
====================
Total: 7,024,000


To replace all older rifles in use, you'd have produce the new 5.8mm rifles by the millions. It took some 40 years for US and other licensed factories to manufacture ~8 million M-16 rifles. For China to equip its troops with the Type 95 rifle, existing production lines need to be re-tooled, that's not something you can do overnight.