North Korean plane crashes in China

Re: New Chinese UAV

There's very little information released on the matter. So how can anyone know what happened? Yeah what would've happened if China shot it down immediately? Can you imagine what the usual suspects would be speculating? "China murders defecting democracy-loving NK military pilot for Kim Jong Il!" And with the tabloid South Korean press... the pilot had evidence of North Korea torpedoing the Cheonan. For all we know the pilot was crazy because why would he fly into China knowing Beijing would most likely return him to North Korea? And using this to spin as a failure in China's part... ask that to Donald Rumsfeld who carried the grudge of his friend back in the 1950s being shot down by China, that had no sophisticated radar system, all the way to being Secretary of Defense. It's not like it came from an "enemy" nation. Also there was a recent story about how private aircraft is flying around China without flight plans reported to authorities. I'm sure according to stereotypes China should've shot down them all, so therefore there must be huge holes in Chinese defenses. No, it just shows China is more cautious as its air space becomes more complex.

BTW, why is this in the UAV thread?

Re: New Chinese UAV

We have to wait for more news, but it is extremely dangerous that any military jet was able to penetrate that easily into Chinese airspace. They got lucky that it was not someone hostile to china (china is the main supporter of the regime he seems to be escaping from) and simply did not drop some bombs. As the plane was not being tracked, any thing could have happened.

And 9/11 is not a relevant example since the aircraft were civilian aircraft, kidnapped from inside the American airspace and no one knew they were going to crash the planes. Prior to 9/11 kidnapped planes were allowed to land instead of being shot out of the sky.

Re: New Chinese UAV

I am questioning the assumption that the NK pilot had access to real maps or knowledge of the true range of the plane -- neither of which are essential under GCI (ground controlled interception) doctrine that NK has.

This just shows how the South Korean media just pulls information from their asses. Defecting to Russia? Where was he planning to go? Moscow? Russia shares a small border with North Korea along the coast. The pilot didn't have to fly across Manchuria out into the wilderness of Siberia.

Re: New Chinese UAV

Skywatcher said:

Or the pilot is still alive and the death angle is just a cover story to avoid any more complications with the "friends" in Pyongyang?

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What if Pyongyang wants to see the corpse?

Re: New Chinese UAV

AssassinsMace said:

BTW, why is this in the UAV thread?

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I asked for a merge with the North Korean plane crash thread about 12 posts ago but no one is listening to me.

and a fighter pilot would be doubly more valuable to China

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A fighter pilot of a Western plane like the F-22 or even a Taiwanese F-16 is one thing but a pilot flying one of the backwards MIG-21 China is so desperate to eliminate?

What if Pyongyang wants to see the corpse?

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Beijing could politely tell Kim Jong Il to stick his thumb up his other end.

Re: New Chinese UAV

siegecrossbow said:

A fighter pilot of a Western plane like the F-22 or even a Taiwanese F-16 is one thing but a pilot flying one of the backwards MIG-21 China is so desperate to eliminate?

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Probably he could give some insight into the doctrine, training, methods and status of the North Korean air force.

Has anyone checked the weather or anything? Could this simply be a navigational error? Is there any information on his heading? Perhaps he went into Chinese airspace, realized so and tried to sneak back into North Korea before his plane ran out of fuel (or he realized he would be tried as a deserter anyway and simply crashed his plane, knowing the Chinese would extradite him at some point anyway). In conclusion: We don't know anything. Let's all wait and see what happens.

PS: Though, as mentioned by some above, the Chinese could possibly edit the story somewhat if it was in their interest.

AssassinsMace said:

This just shows how the South Korean media just pulls information from their asses. Defecting to Russia? Where was he planning to go? Moscow? Russia shares a small border with North Korea along the coast. The pilot didn't have to fly across Manchuria out into the wilderness of Siberia.

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Because Sinuiju borders China? And the Chinese have an extradition treaty with North Korea where they will deport North Koreans back to North Korea if they try to defect. Russia doesn't have that treaty.

He probably ran out of fuel because the North Korean's don't have much in the way of aviation fuel. He also probably didn't have drop tanks as the North Korean regime does not do not allow lone aircraft to fly with drop tanks as it would be to easy to defect (The Soviets did the same thing during the Cold War to limit defections). Furthermore, he was probably using full afterburners to fly through Chinese air space as fast as he could. The lack of fire or explosion post impact is a clear indication of fuel exhaustion.

In any case, feel sorry for his entire extended family; looks like they will be rounded up and sent on a one way trip to a gulag.

And it would've been easier to fly to Vladivostok. Like a MIG could reach Russia flying over Manchuria on full afterburners. Like I said in the other thread about this pilot... crazy. Of course the romantics say he wanted to defect. How about flying to Japan? Or how about ditching his fighter out in the ocean near a ship? How do the South Korean media know of his motivation when reports say the pilot is dead? Psychics?

I too think that the defection story is spotty at best, given Chinese treatment of past defectors. If he really wanted to defect why not fly to South Korea instead?

One other possibility is that the PLA is fully aware of the plane's intrusion ahead of times. They, however, decided to keep the true details of the incidence a secret. Could it be that the MIG was coming to China for a secret assessment/training mission but crashed due to low fuel/pilot error? It would be reasonable for China to cooperate militarily with North Korea given the escalating tension following the Cheonan Incidence.