News on China's scientific and technological development.

daifo said:

The more I look into it, the more I think HarmonyOS for the phone at it's current state is just a fork of Android Open Source Project and it has been modified with Huawei custom code including Huawei Mobile Serivces, EMUI, other improvements etc. Nothing wrong with that as there are many "OS" based on others , for example: FireOs, Ubuntu, MacOS. Some of us were expecting it to use a new micro kernal but I doubt it is the case if they are able to release this to 100 model of devices that are already out in the wild. There is some discussion there are various line of Harmony OS which indeed are using the newer micro kearnal or Huaweis origina OS such at the auto os or wearable/tv.

The problem I see is that Huawei's english marketing in some ways obfusticate the truth as it does not even contains an astriek in tiny print to indicate it is a fork. Harmony OS may be a completely new ecosystem from the ground up, joining all types of devices, but on the phone it is not technically a completely new Operating System. Maybe there is some error in translation or understanding in how "operation system" is usually used in the western context. IMO, this just allows westerners to add more ammo to the "lie"/"copy" narrative

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What did you look into and how much did you look into it? What specifically made you think that? I haven't checked HarmonyOS codes myself, but according to what has been reported,

As found, OpenHarmony 2.0 has an L2 branch that is opened and has pure HarmonyOS code, to be mentioned it has no Android code at all. It can run all of HarmonyOS apps including the one with distributed capabilities and cross-device features.

To be mentioned, there is also L3-L5 version of branches, which is compatible with Android’s dual framework helps the system to run Android apps on HarmonyOS software.

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To my understanding, HarmonyOS is micro-kernel based and supports multi-kernels. Android is based on Linux kernel and seems Huawei put Linux kernel and some Android codes in addition to pure HarmonyOS for compatibility with Android. There is pure HarmonyOS, and it's Android-free and functions as an independent OS. Then Android is added like an add-on. If that's the case, it's different from being a fork.

Debunk if you have software knowledge and evidence apart from suspicion to prove otherwise.

voyager1 said:

Huawei will definetely wont admit that they are using android. There is too much on stake on admitting it outright.

They have danced around this issue many times but the truth is out for the people who can look a bit deeper. There was already a guy who straight up downloaded an Android APK from a website and the "new" HarmonyOS ran it immediately without any issues

I personally dont care about this stuff. What I care is their "Super-Device" and Service Center systems. IMO these are the big HarmonyOS guns that Huawei is bringing to the battlefield

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I don't know much about software and have no ability to assess software, but according to my understandings from HUAWEI's explanations and reports, HUAWEI doesn't claim they don't include any Android on their devices. Android is necessary for usability and compatibility with legacy apps until native HarmonyOS apps grow enough. It's not the new HarmonyOS itself that runs Android APKs, but the Android compatibility layer or components which HUAWEI included in addition to HarmonyOS that runs them. You don't sound like you are speaking from software knowledge or from actually inspecting HarmonyOS software-wise.

This one explains everything.

Russia imports Chinese gas turbine.

bettydice said:

HUAWEI doesn't claim they don't include any Android on their devices

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bettydice said:

It's not the new HarmonyOS itself that runs Android APKs, but the Android compatibility layer or components which HUAWEI included in addition to HarmonyOS that runs them

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You either include Android or you dont. So Huawei includes Android. Discussion ends here imo

And as I said, it doesn't even matter. I dont particularly care if it uses Android under the hood.

Most important are the "Super Device" and Service center systems. These are HarmonyOS selling features

Here's another explanation of the HarmonyOS; the next generation operating system. Currently HarmonyOS uses the AOSP (Android Open Source Project ) codes. HarmonyOS is also open sourced.

bettydice said:

I don't know much about software and have no ability to assess software, but according to my understandings from HUAWEI's explanations and reports, HUAWEI doesn't claim they don't include any Android on their devices. Android is necessary for usability and compatibility with legacy apps until native HarmonyOS apps grow enough. It's not the new HarmonyOS itself that runs Android APKs, but the Android compatibility layer or components which HUAWEI included in addition to HarmonyOS that runs them. You don't sound like you are speaking from software knowledge or from actually inspecting HarmonyOS software-wise.

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You make some excellent points!

So for those who don't know Android or rather AOSP is open source, over the years many companies and individuals have contributed to 'Android' including Huawei, so all those folks that go on about how Huawei is just skinning Android to make Harmony are just dis-igneous because using your own code that you contributed to a open source project is some how just using 'Android', furthermore, harmony refers to the OS core {microkernel) which is all Huawei's own work!.

What Google did was to try and take all the 'useful' stuff out of AOSP and put it in a google mobile services (GMS) layer which they control and which they bake into their apps so you can't use google maps, mail etc on vanilla ASOP without google services, since most useful apps need to make calls to the services GMS provides, this essentially neuters AOSP that's the bit Google has withdrawn from Huawei, since they can't actually control what happens with AOSP. Any simple android app that doesn't interact with location, payment etc will work since it doesn't rely on GMS, anything 'useful' falls flat on its face!

n China not having GMS is no great shakes since no one uses google's apps any way but in the big wide world its more of an issue, so Huawei created Huawei Mobile Services {HMS} a very close facsimile to GMS to allow developers who want to, to recompile their apps with the minimum amount of rework. By substituting GMS with HMS on top of the harmonyOS microkernel you have a complete Android replacement

Finally, any BS about performance is just that, its how optimised the services libraries are since that's where the heavy lifting happens given the hardware remains the same and Huawei's already shown an execution engine for Android apps that's faster than Google's!

hkbc said:

You make some excellent points!

So for those who don't know Android or rather AOSP is open source, over the years many companies and individuals have contributed to 'Android' including Huawei, so all those folks that go on about how Huawei is just skinning Android to make Harmony are just dis-igneous because using your own code that you contributed to a open source project is some how just using 'Android', furthermore, harmony refers to the OS core {microkernel) which is all Huawei's own work!.

What Google did was to try and take all the 'useful' stuff out of AOSP and put it in a google mobile services (GMS) layer which they control and which they bake into their apps so you can't use google maps, mail etc on vanilla ASOP without google services, since most useful apps need to make calls to the services GMS provides, this essentially neuters AOSP that's the bit Google has withdrawn from Huawei, since they can't actually control what happens with AOSP. Any simple android app that doesn't interact with location, payment etc will work since it doesn't rely on GMS, anything 'useful' falls flat on its face!

n China not having GMS is no great shakes since no one uses google's apps any way but in the big wide world its more of an issue, so Huawei created Huawei Mobile Services {HMS} a very close facsimile to GMS to allow developers who want to, to recompile their apps with the minimum amount of rework. By substituting GMS with HMS on top of the harmonyOS microkernel you have a complete Android replacement

Finally, any BS about performance is just that, its how optimised the services libraries are since that's where the heavy lifting happens given the hardware remains the same and Huawei's already shown an execution engine for Android apps that's faster than Google's!

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Kind of agree that is why I also think that google pixel phone can easily outperform better specced phone in user experience. It just feels smoother and google can pinch out more power from the snapdragon chips.

Its not a shame to have the android runtime/environment next to your own runtime/environment, even google knows they can't go without android support on their next microkernel operating system called Fuchsia.

Making an entirely new OS is mind-blogging complex, difficult, time-consuming and expensive.

There is no reason why Huawei shouldn't use ASOP in order to speed-up its development time

The complaints are coming from China-haters bashing China about "can only copy, no innovate" and some Chinese nationalists who want the new OS to have every single thing "Made in China"

Thankfully, Huawei is smarter than these people and is using open-source projects to its advantage.

As I said the Android thing isnt important. Whats important is their Super Device and Service Center systems. Groundbreaking stuff there

siegecrossbow said:

Russia imports Chinese gas turbine.

View attachment 72938

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Can someone translate this?

The turbine seems like it's for Marine application. CGT25-D by CSIC Longjiang GH TURBINE Co. Ltd. A 25 MW turbine used for small-medium applications. It's self developed by the company. The company also is a local component supplier for Zorya Mashproekt / Hitachi products.