News on China's scientific and technological development.

ericlfh said:

China indeed need a reliable partner in developing its own core technolgies (be it Semicon, medicine, physic, aerospace etc) away from western based ones. No single country have the ability to stand alone in Science and Engineering field, which needs diverse and different ideas every steps. However, most countries capable of this is USA allies. We only left we Russia (not completely reliable) as a tech partner. So what can China do to secure its own future as Technology power house?

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How about doing your own basic research yourself. I am sure with 3 million STEM graduate each year and rising R&D funding China can do .Sofar they are in catch up mode concentrating on low hanging fruit of Application research But now they can't get access to the latest tech They have no choice but do it on their own

Hendrik_2000 said:

How about doing your own basic research yourself. I am sure with 3 million STEM graduate each year and rising R&D funding China can do .Sofar they are in catch up mode concentrating on low hanging fruit of Application research But now they can't get access to the latest tech They have no choice but do it on their own

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Applications research is not low hanging fruit.

manqiangrexue said:

God damn, you're stupid. You can't even read and you want to control foreign relations?

I said demonstrate by getting better relations with me and I will show you how no concessions will work. I will antagonize you no matter what you give me just because you exist to show you how futile it is to try to curry favor with a true nemesis. Instead, you regurgitate again all this debunked defeatist crap. Just give up at everything and hope that makes people like you, right? LOL OK, spineless Falun Gong bot. How about hell no as always. You live like a worm; real Chinese people the the aspirations of dragons. In the end, China will win doing everything the Chinese way, bowing to no one. Any other way is an embarrassment and not worth it. You are not Chinese. You are American. Don't ever tell people you're Chinese because you don't deserve to be; when they reject your answer and ask specifically what kind of Asian you are, go with Japanese. And give advice to Americans; that's home team for you. Be defeatist there. You're not a good fit for China.

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No need to get that revved up. I support your remarks though. You are right.

China cannot concede anything. Any and all concessions will be seen as weakness.
The complains will only increase. What they want is a subdued and balkanized China that serves as the Factory of the world foreer.
What they want is for the Chinese to fill their lungs with soot and stomach with polluted water and food so that they can chase permanent ascendancy and remain at the top.

@gadgetcool5 What do you think ? Do you think that they'll stop complaining ? Today its Made In China 2025.
Tomorrow its SCS.
The day after its Taiwan.
After that it'll be Xinjiang, Tibet.
Then it will be "Remove the CCP"
Then it'll be more Churches and proletyzation.
Then it'll be HK style education syllabus that teaches Chinese to disregard their history and look down on their own race and culture.
Then they'll demand that Chinese be replaced with English as it is a "better language".
Then they'll manufacture some divisions within the ethnicities of China and help set up a "Chinese Spring" - the resulting in Balkanization of China.

Then they'll pollute China even more to produce more electronics for them and then blame china for polluting.

ericlfh said:

No single country have the ability to stand alone in Science and Engineering field, which needs diverse and different ideas every steps.

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Remember that China:

1. has a larger population that the rest of the developed world.
2. has more STEM students graduating every year than the rest of the developed world.
3. Could end up with an economy larger than the rest of the developed world in 15-20 years. At the moment, China is roughly the same size, depending on how you measure it.

So theoretically, China is large enough to stand completely alone AND sustain a more advanced science and engineering field than the rest of the world, given enough time.

AndrewS said:

Remember that China:

1. has a larger population that the rest of the developed world.
2. has more STEM students graduating every year than the rest of the developed world.
3. Could end up with an economy larger than the rest of the developed world in 15-20 years. At the moment, China is roughly the same size, depending on how you measure it.

So theoretically, China is large enough to stand completely alone AND sustain a more advanced science and engineering field than the rest of the world, given enough time.

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the most pronounced geopolitical fact: China is big, the world is small.

I agree with you that China has a lot of STEM graduates per year, but they all come from the same pool of knowledge, we need diverse and different ideas for innovation to progress and maintain our advantage. This can be achieved either by sending students to gain or exhange knowledge with advanced countries. China should strived to take leadership role in technologies away from US (even if we are lagging), but still it needs trusted partners to do so and maintains it.

Diversity of thinking, ideas, and approaches to systemic and structural changes can be done within a community. Even if we ignore China's relative diversity in ethnicity and culture (which is only surpassed by the west due to immigration), it is still more than possible to introduce challenges to the establishment. This is all to do with science + tech of course. Including how businesses are set up and run and how the government manages to modulate everything along with how much they modulate.

Assuming all the above is necessary to equal or surpass the west in every aspect of science and tech, it is achievable and honestly is being done. A few decades ago, China's ease of doing business metrics were well behind that of the US and now the reality is it has far surpassed it but the measuring hasn't really caught up. There's always this phenomenon of the measurements lagging actuality for some time. Take a proper look at how Xiaomi and Alibaba really innovated in their business practices and the fintech that's made many other examples possible. Nothing even close to these have happened in the US, the world leader.

Innovation in fresh new ideas is also something Chinese are actually especially good at! Contrary to what the brain dead morons love saying. Take a look at the variety of business practices, gizmos, and products that the west simply do not even bother doing. Sure it's because there are just that many more Chinese people and that much more competition but the pace at which China moves in innovation honestly surprises even my most optimistic attitudes. It's all limited to relatively little things but it demonstrates an underlying mechanism which forces it. Give it time and just a fair playing field, China will surpass the west in every aspect of science and tech within this century. It doesn't even need to overhaul its cultural and social model which is partial to conformity in thinking. This resists creativity and innovation a little but already the flow is strong enough.

If China were to embrace a more "westernised" attitude to society and cultural thinking that Japan and Taiwan for example have embraced (albeit with their own cultures still dominating), it could all be a little more conducive for the outlier geniuses to capitalise on their talents even further. I don't think authoritarianism or how the CCP is running the show, along with any Chinese cultural preferences, are a net disadvantage to this. They're really the ones keeping everything together and slow and steady is better than broken and chaotic.

The west won the world from the 17th to 20th century from a foundation of violence and theft. Real violent, real theft. Killed hundreds of millions around the world. Shit just India they killed over a hundred million. Looted resources, stole land, stole ideas, stole technology and knowledge, enslaved millions upon millions to labour, colonised half the world and killed each other the entire time they were at it.

Once wealthy and "developed" they had a sense of moral superiority, built on the foundations of this violence and stolen wealth. Their newly colonised lands opened up to migrants which further toiled for insignificant sums to build them and then were mostly mistreated and abandoned as an afterthought.

Towards the middle of the 20th century, the US truly started lifting off thanks almost ENTIRELY to foreign talent. Mostly Jewish genius. Then closer to the turn of the century, the US managed to attract all the world's best minds to reinforce its dominance in science and tech. Even to this day the majority of its greatest industries are founded, run, and operated by majority foreign born individuals (statistically more than 50% at least in software and computing) and the "American" ones left are about as "American" and WASPy as their Maths Olympiad teams.

China doesn't need to perform the violence, theft, and colonialism. The US blames China for stealing tech. Sure that actually definitely happens but nowhere near as much as they say it does. They also forget literally everyone does it and has done it while they were going up. China demands trade of tech for market access through many domains sure. But those tech were also partially developed by those businesses thanks to the market access and extra income that came from Chinese consumers participating in that capitalist process. Sounds like CCP just used the leverage they had.

There are only one or two major commercial technologies that China isn't competitive or leading in today. This is literally it. This is the moment. The last threats to Chinese security and rise as an equal or superior power to the sole superpower today is really military and global attitudes. Thankfully statesmen around the world are more rational and knowledgeable overall than the anglosphere, Murdoch media consuming, truck drivers in the west. The military threat is the only real threat even if the US prefers playing information warfare.

So China has all it needs within itself to eventually surpass the US in economic size, industrial capability, and science+tech abilities. For economic size I'm just going with per capita since it's the last vestige and I know China's surpassed in many PPP adjusted metrics long ago.

Diversity of thinking is f*cking easy and not necessarily always a good thing. Tell the Germans that when they were leading the world in the mid 20th century about diversity of thinking. And I'm not talking about pol or anything philosophical. China could however really make use of provincial differences and set each province up in pseudo competition with each other which is basically what the CCP has done for its lower to mid tier cadres and economic output measures.

What the science guys need to really wrap their heads around is that there is finite left to learn, study, "steal", reverse engineer, understand, etc etc. They need to start pushing the boundaries which is arguably something Chinese are less culturally familiar with compared to western peers e.g. Chinese kids are more encouraged to follow and play it safe rather than to lead and explore new ground. But with changing wealth and social security comes greater confidence and risk taking behaviour. However if Chinese scientists and engineers weren't capable of this, China wouldn't have innovated quantum communication and encryption tech, 5G tech, energy technologies, computing etc ... list is actually long and detailed often difficult to explain but most of you know it well enough. Even in turbofan tech, there are a handful of examples where Chinese engineers were the first to develop certain manufacturing technologies and materials for western companies like Rolls Royce, beating competitors in the west.

All that remains is time and internal security. The declining empire is attacking it in every way it can now. As we have predicted years ago and as is becoming increasingly obvious by the day.

machupicu said:

Beijing is the top science city in the Nature Index in 2019 based on Share,

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. The Chinese capital also makes a far greater contribution to the Share of its region (21%) than any of the other top five cities in the index (New York 10.3%, Boston 9.5%, San Francisco-San Jose 8.4%, Shanghai 10.9%).

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Additional info on each city,