News on China's scientific and technological development.

Awenumick said:

We need some semiconductor industry expert, anyone here?

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Asked a friend at Intel. TLDR you can't really compare it directly

Conventional techniques don't use lasers, so it's already not a 1:1 comparison

Fabs also measure equipment speed in WPH, Wafers per Hour, not nanogap electrodes per hour, since complete litho machines work on a defined wafer size (200mm or 300mm wafers). Given that this is a theoretical/experimental technique, there's no actual implementation right now.

Furthermore, nanogap electrodes are....esoteric, to say the least. So far everything I have read indicate that it isn't a full transistor, but rather used to join molecular components together or used as part of a transistor.

Assuming that each nanogap electrode represents a single transistor, this would mean that it's at a rate of 50k transistors per hour. Way too slow to be useful.

In comparison, EUV machines at Intel outputs around 100 wafers per hour, with each wafer having more than a trillion transistors, which makes me question whether the electrodes are being used as part of a transistor or not, or why they decided to report the speed using that particular measurement.

horse said:

Thanks ansy1968 for posting what WTAN posted before, and I fully agree with him.

The most important about a fab, we must all remember, is that it is a factory. What is the important point about a factory is production.

SMIC production already at 14nm. To me, that is end of story. There is nothing anyone can do to stop production.

Where the story gets really interesting, is that with the capital given to SMIC, they will buy Chinese only machines, installed in the same factory as the American machines, to produce this 14nm and sell to Huawei.

Then SMIC will try to move to lower nodes. I think we should wait 1-3 years to see what happens. In the meantime, 14nm widgets from that factory that will be verified by gong an not as using American machines will be in mass production.

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Hi horse,

No need to thank me, I'm just happy to take part in this discussion with people in the know like WTAN, Superdog, Skywacther, KYli, latenlazy , localizer and others. Being a novice myself, I thank them all and I learn a lot. This kind of discussion is what is needed, with most of us outsider looking in, they are our best source of info, there is a saying I once gleam in this thread. Foreign editors with no semi conductor background usually poo poo China IC effort cause they only see the surface, but those in the know are worried cause they cant see what is happening below the surface. That my friend is what makes this thread exciting, China will surprises us, Just like 20 years ago with J10 , j20 Y20 and so on. It's addictive and frustrating cause we have to wait 2 years to see the result.

free_6ix9ine said:

In fact keep the names of chip companies names completely secret. So when Huawei gets its chips back, it will be impossible to sanction the company making those chips because the American chip policia doesn't even know who or what is making the chips for Huawei.

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That's a pretty neat idea. What if Huawei ordered unbranded chips to be made by its supplier? The dipshits working for Trump would open one up, see a chip with no company name on it and have no idea whom to sanction!

manqiangrexue said:

That's a pretty neat idea. What if Huawei ordered unbranded chips to be made by its supplier? The dipshits working for Trump would open one up, see a chip with no company name on it and have no idea whom to sanction!

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People can find out anyway through reverse engineering, e.g. Techinsights

Aperture05 said:

People can find out anyway through reverse engineering, e.g. Techinsights

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If they are custom designed for Huawei and match no other chips on the market, how would these techniques track back to the company? I'm thinking that only if some company used stock chips but unbranded them would they be able to match unbranded chips to the branded chips.

manqiangrexue said:

If they are custom designed for Huawei and match no other chips on the market, how would these techniques track back to the company? I'm thinking that only if some company used stock chips but unbranded them would they be able to match unbranded chips to the branded chips.

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Supply chain probably too well controlled. There's export rules for labeling. TSMC and other fabs have ASML workers there to make sure they are making what they say they're going to make. You can open a Huawei product, extract the chip and match it with the unbranded chip or replace it with the suspected chip. It's like smuggling drugs and uranium.

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Guys, I'm not techy. So please bear with me. I found this from the New York Times. And thought interesting read. Especially about the chip makers SMIC and TSMC and ASML. And how CHINA is still dependent on the two foreign companies for their chips.

So how dependent is China? And if so, can US decapitate Huawei?

America Is Going to Decapitate Huawei
The United States’ technological dominance gives it an immense power. But how long will that last?

By Chris Miller
Mr. Miller is an economic historian.

• Sept. 15, 2020

China “plans to dominate the world’s digital infrastructure,” Attorney General William Barr . A “truly Orwellian surveillance state” is just around the corner, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo . In fields from facial recognition to artificial intelligence to 5G telecom technology, it often seems like China has already become the world’s technology superpower.

rest of the article:

Gatekeeper said:

Guys, I'm not techy. So please bear with me. I found this from the New York Times. And thought interesting read. Especially about the chip makers SMIC and TSMC and ASML. And how CHINA is still dependent on the two foreign companies for their chips.

So how dependent is China? And if so, can US decapitate Huawei?

America Is Going to Decapitate Huawei
The United States’ technological dominance gives it an immense power. But how long will that last?

By Chris Miller
Mr. Miller is an economic historian.

• Sept. 15, 2020

China “plans to dominate the world’s digital infrastructure,” Attorney General William Barr

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

. A “truly Orwellian surveillance state” is just around the corner, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

. In fields from facial recognition to artificial intelligence to 5G telecom technology, it often seems like China has already become the world’s technology superpower.

rest of the article:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

1. Don't be discouraged that it mentions some employees are leaving Huawei. We dont really know that, and even if there were some leaving, naturally, the positive side of the coin: Huawei will replace them and hire More..

2. There was an article that mentions that in 2017 China had 400,000 ppl in its semicon industries, and by 2020 it would need 700K, and also China graduates 30K in semi field per year. So that means approx end of this year China has +500K ppl in semi field

3. Look at China's history: atomic bomb, satellite, beidou etcetc..do u think in 2-3-4 yrs China will remain the same in its semi industries..?

Exclusive video: Huawei CTO on how company will change your life
Watch an Asia Times webinar in which Huawei CTO Paul Scanlan talks with Editor Uwe Parpart
By SEPTEMBER 16, 2020

If you thought Huawei was a handset and telecom equipment company, you’re wrong: Huawei wants to enable the Fourth Industrial Revolution. 5G is just a springboard to make technologies possible that will change the way everyone lives.

In the latest Asia Times Webinar, Huawei CTO Paul Scanlan discusses everything from how US sanctions are affecting the company to the Harmony operating system.

He also touches on the potential sale of chipmaker ARM to Nvidia and Huawei’s global presence and work culture.