News on China's scientific and technological development.

SamuraiBlue said:

Ambitious?
Oh, boy. Look, the fact is with computer science and super computers being utilized in more broader functions just measuring how fast it can compute in a straight line is becoming less and less important through the various examples I had elaborated.
Like a car race in which there is the quarter mile dash, the endurance race and sprint race in the circuit. Not any of the cars will win all form of races.
The TaihuLight claims the title for the quarter mile dash but the K computer at the moment is claiming the circuit sprint title, that is all.

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This was your original claim that is the source of the issue: "There is a gimick in the fastest claim."
By saying that, you are directly saying that the entire Top500 process for measuring supercomputers is a gimmick.

So yeah, I think ambitious sums it up pretty well.


But it's okay, your last post you've correctly realized that claim was too unreasonable and dialled it down to a slightly more defensible position so no worries.

Bltizo said:

But it's okay, your last post you've correctly realized that claim was too unreasonable and dialled it down to a slightly more defensible position so no worries.

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Stop crying they are sour grapes.
I have not changed any of my claims from the start.

SamuraiBlue said:

Stop crying they are sour grapes.
I have not changed any of my claims from the start.

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Indeed?

So you are still saying that you think the entire top500 process for determining supercomputer power is a gimmick, or that it is flawed, or an incorrect way of measuring it?

In which case, please refer back to this part of my reply #2937: "I hope you can understand why such an ambitious suggestion might not be taken seriously without a much larger arsenal of premises to defend that argument."

Yawn..

Come back after you actually read and understand what I have posted since you obviously have not.
Till then good day.

SamuraiBlue said:

All ready did with all the post I have written. Now tuck your tail between your legs and run along like a nice fox that can't jump high enough.

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LOL Says the person who's wrong more times than B787! Still waiting for you to answer on how anti-cancer genetics can be used by terrorists in the kitchen, some sort of evidence on WS-10 being unreliable (other than, "RD-93 blows smoke" and "Some Japanese experts with no name and no quote said so") and on you putting some substance on your "good chance" claim on Trump never assuming office. Just because we were nice and didn't tell you to "tuck your tail in between your legs" doesn't mean we don't remember; you're not slick by ignoring these questions. When you don't respond, we do assume it's because you've scampered away in that very position.

You're the only one here with "sour grapes" mentality, chugging haterade with every post, stooping so unbelievably low as to try to discredit cancer research. The LINPACK 500 is the gold standard and GRAPH500 is not. As a matter of fact, I've never heard any article report on it before and I assume you're only going on about it because it's the only one that ranks K-computer highly. If the opposite were true and Taihulight was #1 on the GRAPH500 while K was #1 on the LINPACK, I'm certain we'd never hear a peep out of you about it. You want people to take GRAPH500 as the authority? Go convince media and convince the supercomputer community to change it to the gold standard over LINPACK, then we'll believe you. What? You can't do that, you say? You can only pretend to be knowledgable to people who aren't in the field? Every time you meet an expert, you end up ignoring him and scurrying away like a rodent? Well too bad for you then.

SamuraiBlue said:

All ready did with all the post I have written. Now tuck your tail between your legs and run along like a nice fox that can't jump high enough.

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Unfortunately, none of your subsequent posts were anywhere near enough to substantiate the level of claim that you have made.


To be frank I'm surprised you're still pushing this avenue of argument. To back it up in the way you've phrased it would at least require some collection of articles or testimonies from experts supporting your position. The much vaunted acceptance that top500/linpack holds in terms of measuring relevant computing power means you'd need a hell of a lot of firepower to convince anyone it is irrelevant, even on a mere internet forum.

A more sensible argument could have been that linpack should not be the only single metric to look at in looking at computing power, but that graph500 is also an applicable metric as well. That would be an argument that I think most people would quite happily accept as somewhat reasonable.
But you went quite a bit further than that, by not only essentially saying that the entirety of top500/linpack is rubbish, but also adding on top of it that graph500 should be the key replacement metric instead. And all without giving anywhere near what I think anyone would consider to be viable evidence for your position either.


Of course, I'm still happy to see if you have any other premises or evidence to support your argument, or if you wish to retract or modify your original claim.

For the sake of discussion etiquette, you see.

Bltizo said:

Unfortunately, none of your subsequent posts were anywhere near enough to substantiate the level of claim that you have made.


To be frank I'm surprised you're still pushing this avenue of argument. To back it up in the way you've phrased it would at least require some collection of articles or testimonies from experts supporting your position. The much vaunted acceptance that top500/linpack holds in terms of measuring relevant computing power means you'd need a hell of a lot of firepower to convince anyone it is irrelevant, even on a mere internet forum.

A more sensible argument could have been that linpack should not be the only single metric to look at in looking at computing power, but that graph500 is also an applicable metric as well. That would be an argument that I think most people would quite happily accept as somewhat reasonable.
But you went quite a bit further than that, by not only essentially saying that the entirety of top500/linpack is rubbish, but also adding on top of it that graph500 should be the key replacement metric instead. And all without giving anywhere near what I think anyone would consider to be viable evidence for your position either.


Of course, I'm still happy to see if you have any other premises or evidence to support your argument, or if you wish to retract or modify your original claim.

For the sake of discussion etiquette, you see.

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I don't mean to naysay as SamuraiBlue the Chinese achievements in supercomputing but if it had been my problem, I would've been interested in REAL benefits of ever-increasing output, in an analogy with increasing the caliber of main battery guns of Battleships in let's say 1910-40 I mean it was considered to be strategic investment (as supercomputing is), it worked (as supercomputers do, despite SamuraiBlue not liking the metrics but 'the ultimate Battleship', while tactically dubious, would've been just too expensive to build, and the analogy would be if an exascale computer could "forecast with certainty" (*) for example China's coastal area weather in real time?

(*) some stuff can't be easily (because of "the chaotic nature of the problem")

just my thoughts after lunch, in the middle of Europe, anyway ...

Jura said:

just my thoughts after lunch anyway ...

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Why do you have to doubt the ability of TaihuLight to deliver real world benefits in supercomputing time?

In the Graph500, it is 2nd to only to the K Computer. But in the Top500, K is ranked 7th.

Also without a doubt, the usual stuff from you. I hope it is not going to spoil your digestion.

SamuraiBlue said:

Ambitious?
Oh, boy. Look, the fact is with computer science and super computers being utilized in more broader functions just measuring how fast it can compute in a straight line is becoming less and less important through the various examples I had elaborated.
Like a car race in which there is the quarter mile dash, the endurance race and sprint race in the circuit. Not any of the cars will win all form of races.
The TaihuLight claims the title for the quarter mile dash but the K computer at the moment is claiming the circuit sprint title, that is all.

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So much of distracting and irrelevant comment. You know that the K Computer in the Graph500 list didn't even make it into the Top500 list whereas the Taihulight is in the Graph500 2nd and Top500 1st place?

You have bragged so much about the K Computer being good at atmospheric/weather prediction application. Instead of just bragging, why not show the proof of exactly what it can actually do, like what the Taihulight has done by winning the 2016 ACM Gordon Bell prize by doing exactly the kind of application you claimed the K Computer was good at. i.e. atmospheric simulation/prediction application.

The fact of the matter is both the data communication speed and FLOPS performance are important in processing but we can tell from the above competition the latter is the more significant determinant in the above kind of application, and in probably most other application.


Chinese supercomputer project wins top int'l prize
Source: Xinhua 2016-11-18 20:28:47



NANJING, Nov. 18 (Xinhua) -- A Chinese team on Friday won the 2016 ACM Gordon Bell prize, a top honor in high-performance comg, for an application running on China's fastest supercomputer.

It is the first time a Chinese team has won the award.

The project, named "10M-Core Scalable Fully-Implicit Solver for Nonhydrostatic Atmospheric Dynamics," presents a method for calculating atmospheric dynamics, according to the Association for Computing Machinery, which presented the award at the International Supercomputing Conference in Salt Lake City in the .

"The application can help improve global climate simulation and weather prediction," said Yang Guangwen, director of the National Supercomputing Center in Wuxi. ....

t2contra said:

Why do you have to doubt the ability of TaihuLight to deliver real world benefits in supercomputing time?

In the Graph500, it is 2nd to only to the K Computer. But in the Top500, K is ranked 7th.

Also without a doubt, the usual stuff from you. I hope it is not going to spoil your digestion.

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That's a different K Computer. The K Computer we're talking about didn't make it to the Top500 list.