News on China's scientific and technological development.

krautmeister · Jun 5, 2021

voyager1 said:
You are viewing this from a commercial point of view which is ok in normal situations. However this matter has prover to be a serious matter of national security issue. If these companies dont want to do this then the gov will force them to do, either quickly roll out your own OS or adopt HarmonyOS

National security > Commercial reasons

Not everybody is meant to be a leader, something I was talking about in an earlier thread about Xi Jinping. Huawei is one of the few companies who were lucky enough to have a visionary leadership while also simultaneously having superior competitive advantages and overall excellence. It's not easy for every company to achieve this, especially when those companies are in direct competition with Huawei. You are looking at this from a governmental point of view but this is also about business and some of these companies, especially the weaker ones don't have that much space to maneuver.

voyager1 said:
AliPay was threatening to crumble the entire Chinese economy the way it was going, the time when China is fighting off the US. If thats not treason I dont know what is. I dont know if that was his intention (probably not), but the potential catastrophic damage to China was all the same
Maybe another word is better to describe it, but if Alipay had destroyed the Chinese economy, the consequences would still be the same for Jack Ma, death penalty

You might have a point here because by AliPay leeching off China's banking system to support AliPay's lending business, it would directly cause the eventual collapse of the banking system's business portfolio, something which I was always surprised took so long to realize and clamp down on. It's disturbing that China's financial regulators didn't curtail AliPay earlier and only did so when Jack Ma came out to criticize financial regulation. That level of stupidity shows incompetence and perhaps even corruption. Imo, the way it should be done is, the PBOC should be final arbiter of who gets what. If China wants to modernize their financial system, the Digital RMB should be the conduit through which that is done, NOT AliPay or any other conduit further down the line because all that does is allow the AliPay's and WeChat Pays to gradually monopolize banking business which weakens the PBOC indirectly.

krautmeister · Jun 5, 2021

voyager1 said:
SCMP is another obvious treasonous matter but paradoxically enough I think it fits China's plans. They are anti-China enough to gather Western-attention, but they also manage to sneak in some Chinese arguments from time to time.

IMO the biggest for me is that Jack Ma had become too much friendly with his western billionaire buddies and he had started to adopt some of their practises. This was extremely alarming which is why I am happy to see him put down for some time in order to reflect on his mistakes

We all know Jack Ma was a very enthusiastic admirer of the West early on similar to how most mainlanders were before year 2005. However, since then, much has changed. We really don't know his intentions but the fact that he allows the clearly biased editorial line at the Hong Kong based SCMP tells me he definitely isn't a China nationalist. That doesn't mean he is a traitor either so there shouldn't be any debate or any picking and choosing of winners and losers among China's corporate giants. It will all sort itself out just as it is sorting itself out now with companies like H&M, Nike, Adidas, Uniqlo, etc. who choose to unfairly harm China in one way or another. The bigger question is why China citizens continue to support companies that are clearly either anti-China or who indirectly support anti-China smear campaigns? For example, once this Cotton slave labor narrative is fully exposed, why would these companies products still be purchased anyways? Why support them ever again? These are weak kneed boycotts imo. If China consumers really want to make a lasting impact, they need to support China's own companies or at the very least NEVER support foreign brands that do unjustified harm to China.

siegecrossbow · Jun 5, 2021

I think the knocks on Jack Ma are unfair. 1) he doesn’t have editorial oversight over SCMP, which routinely posts articles critical of him as well as China. 2) SCMP has both pro and anti China articles. This presents an opportunity to show the anti-China people the Chinese standpoint since it breaks the echo chamber mold.

Kaeshmiri · Jun 6, 2021

siegecrossbow said:
I think the knocks on Jack Ma are unfair. 1) he doesn’t have editorial oversight over SCMP, which routinely posts articles critical of him as well as China. 2) SCMP has both pro and anti China articles. This presents an opportunity to show the anti-China people the Chinese standpoint since it breaks the echo chamber mold.

Jack Ma pays the bills and who pays the bills controls the overall narrative. Even WaPo criticizes its owner Jeff Bezos every now and then but make no mistake its him who controls the ultimate narrative. Ofcorse owners don't screen each and every article that's comes out but they do give the newspaper an overall direction.
"Editorial oversight" is a western creation to deflect criticism of owners ( even BBC claims the same to show they're independent of UK Govt.)
I agree about your assessment about SCMP ,it publishes articles from both sides of the spectrum . Overall i don't think Jack Ma should be criticsed about SCMP but rather it should be about the monopolistic and predatory practices of Alibaba.

Lnk111229 · Jun 6, 2021

Xsizor said:
No subject expert but-

I don't think they can just port an OS over, especially with kernel based changes, over to other devices just as easily.

The hardware needs to talk with the software and that means the hardware has to be made compatible with Harmony OS. Other smartphone manufacturers are likely to not have their hardwares be certified for the OS. So forget backward compatibility.

Hardware is not a problem. Xiaomi, BBK can release new phones every month not like in golden time of Nokia when you need year to introduce new phones . So those China company just need month to introduce entire series of smartphone running Harmony OS. It just they want or not. At the end they are business rival with Huawei not friend.

hashtagpls · Jun 6, 2021

siegecrossbow said:
I think the knocks on Jack Ma are unfair. 1) he doesn’t have editorial oversight over SCMP, which routinely posts articles critical of him as well as China. 2) SCMP has both pro and anti China articles. This presents an opportunity to show the anti-China people the Chinese standpoint since it breaks the echo chamber mold.

Rupert murdoch doesn't explicitly say what he wants but he conveys his intention by promoting those who parrot his beliefs and stifling those journalists who disagree with him and even goes as far as to destroy their careers. Media moguls don't need to have a list of Do's and Don'ts. The least that Jack Ma could've done is fired those who were traitors to the anglos.

solarz · Jun 6, 2021

Xsizor said:
No. The whole point of the OS is to create an app ecosystem that provides enough variety of applications.

Android is needed for its apks. Huawei has much right to Android project as it was a contributor.

App Gallery will have to shift away from apks altogether to make the big change complete. That seems to be an year or two away.

If Huawei wants to succeed with the Harmony OS, they need to better than Android in some capacity. If Harmony OS wants to be better than Android in some capacity, then it cannot afford to be just an Android fork.

Ecosystem creation is not that big of a problem, you just need to throw money at it. Anything that can be solved with money is not a big problem.

Strangelove · Jun 6, 2021

krautmeister said:
These companies would be risking their cash cows on an unproven OS. On top of that, they are the primary beneficiaries of Huawei's lost market share from smartphones. So, it's very clear why they wouldn't adopt Harmony OS, "at least right now". I'm very sure they are considering it in one form or another because they need a back up plan given the US escalating threats. My feeling is they are planning a way to quickly roll it out in the event Google is sanctioned from them. Then they could have it pushed to all their phones as an "update".

Remember when Harmony OS was first unveiled at the Huawei World Developer conference in 2019? It was explicitly mentioned that Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, Meizu and Lenovo were cooperating on Harmony OS development. I am confident that all of them are planning on releasing China localized ROMs for their China sold phones, and "IF" that is successful, to follow with global ROMs for various languages while they sell pre-installed Harmony OS phones within China.

Why do you call Jack Ma treasonous? The way I understand it, his AliPay venture had the potential to endanger China's financial system because it was promoting a dangerous form of leveraged financial arbitrage. He then later publicly criticized China's financial regulators as being an obsolete organization with a pawn shop mentality. This kind of disdain for financial regulation must have been seen as a threat to China's financial integrity given the size of Alibaba and the way they use China's traditional banking system to run their financial arbitrage lending business. It's not about treason, it's about financial risk with a wayward billionaire. The only thing that is treasonous about Jack Ma imo, is his ownership of SCMP and allowing the editorial department to promote news with the atypical Western anti-China bias. It's pretty obvious at SCMP but not AS obvious as with the more blatant CNN, BBC, FOX News, Reuters, AFP, DW, Al Jazeera, The Economist, Bloomberg, Forbes, New York Times, Washington Post, The Guardian, The Telegraph, Facebook, Youtube, Google search, Twitter, Wikipedia, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc....

Good points.

Slight correction however, it's Jack's Ant Financial that was the danger (subprime for online loans) not Alipay. Alipay is fine and half a billion consumers (including myself) have used it for years without issues.

vincent · Jun 6, 2021

siegecrossbow said:
I think the knocks on Jack Ma are unfair. 1) he doesn’t have editorial oversight over SCMP, which routinely posts articles critical of him as well as China. 2) SCMP has both pro and anti China articles. This presents an opportunity to show the anti-China people the Chinese standpoint since it breaks the echo chamber mold.

Have you read SCMP’s shit on Xinjiang?

Tyler · Jun 6, 2021

krautmeister said:
These companies would be risking their cash cows on an unproven OS. On top of that, they are the primary beneficiaries of Huawei's lost market share from smartphones. So, it's very clear why they wouldn't adopt Harmony OS, "at least right now". I'm very sure they are considering it in one form or another because they need a back up plan given the US escalating threats. My feeling is they are planning a way to quickly roll it out in the event Google is sanctioned from them. Then they could have it pushed to all their phones as an "update".

Remember when Harmony OS was first unveiled at the Huawei World Developer conference in 2019? It was explicitly mentioned that Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, Meizu and Lenovo were cooperating on Harmony OS development. I am confident that all of them are planning on releasing China localized ROMs for their China sold phones, and "IF" that is successful, to follow with global ROMs for various languages while they sell pre-installed Harmony OS phones within China.

Why do you call Jack Ma treasonous? The way I understand it, his AliPay venture had the potential to endanger China's financial system because it was promoting a dangerous form of leveraged financial arbitrage. He then later publicly criticized China's financial regulators as being an obsolete organization with a pawn shop mentality. This kind of disdain for financial regulation must have been seen as a threat to China's financial integrity given the size of Alibaba and the way they use China's traditional banking system to run their financial arbitrage lending business. It's not about treason, it's about financial risk with a wayward billionaire. The only thing that is treasonous about Jack Ma imo, is his ownership of SCMP and allowing the editorial department to promote news with the atypical Western anti-China bias. It's pretty obvious at SCMP but not AS obvious as with the more blatant CNN, BBC, FOX News, Reuters, AFP, DW, Al Jazeera, The Economist, Bloomberg, Forbes, New York Times, Washington Post, The Guardian, The Telegraph, Facebook, Youtube, Google search, Twitter, Wikipedia, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc....

He had no reason to say that at all. If you think about it, why didn't he claim Wechat Pay's Pony Ma is treasonous? AliPay and WeChat pay are both important in implementing the internal circulation part of the big double circulation plan of economic development.

News on China's scientific and technological development.

krautmeister

Junior Member

krautmeister

Junior Member

siegecrossbow

General

Kaeshmiri

Junior Member

Lnk111229

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hashtagpls

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solarz

Brigadier

Strangelove

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vincent

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Tyler

Captain