New Type98/99 MBT thread

[kwaigonegin]

some things I learned recently:

the Abrams can't fire ATGM, has no autoloader, and has a smaller gun than the 99A. although it probably better protected. the 99A has all of these things, plus being more mobile because it is lighter.

dare I say that the 99A compares favorably to the Abrams? hahaha

No, there are far more to it than just those 3 things.

 

[Hitomi]

The ammunition matters as much as, if not more than the gun. I hear that autoloaders force sabot rounds to be stored in two pieces, which limits their effectiveness.

It's just a Soviet autoloader design choice to pack the ammunition in a smaller area. All NATO 120mm and 105mm guns armed tanks fire one piece ammo including those with autoloaders, so using an autoloader does not force you to use two piece ammo.

 

[gelgoog]

It's just a Soviet autoloader design choice to pack the ammunition in a smaller area. All NATO 120mm and 105mm guns armed tanks fire one piece ammo including those with autoloaders, so using an autoloader does not force you to use two piece ammo.

Yeah. For example the French Leclerc, South Korean K2, Japanese Type 90, and Type 10 have autoloaders for 120mm NATO ammo.
M1 and Leopard 2 are just obsolete 1970s design Western tanks with manual autoloaders.

 

[mlkoplm]

The ammunition matters as much as, if not more than the gun. I hear that autoloaders force sabot rounds to be stored in two pieces, which limits their effectiveness.

That's not entirely true. There are autoloaders that fire one piece ammo such as in the K2 or Leclerc. They have their ammo stored in the turret Bustle which allows longer one piece ammo to be stored and loaded straight into the gun. While autoloaders in tanks like the T-72 or Type 99 use an ammo carousel in the hull which requires the ammo to be stored in two pieces due to the loading mechanism needing to lift the shell up to the gun. While not exactly a MBT, the ZTQ-15's smaller 105mm gun also uses a one piece autoloaded round carried in a bustle ammo rack.

 

[Inque]

Right. Carousel autoloaders absolutely suck. There's virtually no benefit to using them over a bustle autoloader. They're also responsible for the jack in the box effect while it's possible to install blowout panels with a bustle. It's unfortunate that the 99 uses carousel.

 

[TK3600]

Right. Carousel autoloaders absolutely suck. There's virtually no benefit to using them over a bustle autoloader. They're also responsible for the jack in the box effect while it's possible to install blowout panels with a bustle. It's unfortunate that the 99 uses carousel.

Carousals are more compact, harder to hit. Compact means less weight, more armor.

With newer designs, good material technology, carousal loaders can still pack AP with over 800mm penetration at 2km, more than enough to destroy any tanks today and near future. Meanwhile still retain the other benefits of carousal. Until tanks become much more well armored carousal is still the way for large caliber tank guns.

 

[Gloire_bb]

Right. Carousel autoloaders absolutely suck. There's virtually no benefit to using them over a bustle autoloader. They're also responsible for the jack in the box effect while it's possible to install blowout panels with a bustle. It's unfortunate that the 99 uses carousel.

Technically speaking, it's perfectly possible to do downward blowout panels on a carousel - the same way as Abrams hull ammo storage does that.

 

[plawolf]

Smaller gun by like 5mm doesn’t mean anything. It should also be noted that a good abrams loader can load faster than a Soviet auto loader for a period of time.

A good loader might be able to do that fresh, let’s see his RPM after having loaded a fair few rounds.

 

[TK3600]

A good loader might be able to do that fresh, let’s see his RPM after having loaded a fair few rounds.

Or loading on the move.

 

[sequ]

Technically speaking, it's perfectly possible to do downward blowout panels on a carousel - the same way as Abrams hull ammo storage does that.

IIRC, it only vents upwards in the Abrams.