New Type98/99 MBT thread

Tyloe

Junior Member
Type 96 no.806, no.808, and no. 809 finished Day 4 Stage 2 of the Tank Biathlon. Here's the entire footage of Day 4, it's quite long, 7+ hours, but you can skip to the parts that show the Type 96s marked below, without watching it entirely. No. 807 was probably the damaged tank that collided with the T-72B.
[video=youtube;cL5nHPGRkwo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL5nHPGRkwo[/video]

50:00 Chinese team prepares to load ammunition.

1:07:00 Type 96 no 808 departs to complete the 20km drive through terrain and obstacles. There was a part when the no. 808 covered through obstacles that tested mobility, (tanks have snake around a line of poles and avoid hit them).

5:39:39 Type 96 no.809 and Russian Type-72b meet head to head with the Russian tank crew over taking.

5:58:00-6:01:30 Type 96 no. 808 fires during the stage of tank marksmanship and hits target and departs to complete course. There are camera shots of PLA officers.
 
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mobydog

Junior Member
I have been following this competition on rt, and keeping the type96a in particular attention, since the rest are t72 variants. The 96a does seems under powered compare with the T72b3, it quite visually obvious. But does not seemed to hindered by any of the slopes and handles them quite well.

The russian's T72b3 is said to be powered by a 1130hp engine and lighter (45 tons) . While the 96a is said to be 50 tons with 1000hp. By deduction, that is about 20 percent difference in power. Type 96a is not going win any rat race in this competition with the T72.

Which brings me to another observation. From tyleo video post at about 5.58, the 96a does seemed to acurately acquire targets at a much faster rate. In fact, even though the russian were at the firing site first (for quite a while) before the chinese. The chinese have to wait for their last shot, same as the russian, even though they had already acquired the target for about a full minute. Had the chinese been allowed to shoot first than the russian. The chinese could have complete the course first, then have to wait for the target to be prepared again.

So it seemed such competition does not reflect performance in the actual tactical battlefields. The type 96a may have better AT protection and chances of firing the first shot makes all the difference.

That said, I wish the type 96a have a more powerful engine, I feel it's really strolling at track, watching sunset.
 

Lezt

Junior Member
The chart which the Russians posted showing the weight and top speeds of all the various tanks participating seems to show otherwise (which luhai included in #1918). If that chart is accurate, Type 96A is not only heavier than the other T-72s but also has a higher top speed, which says something about its power to weight ratio.

Its not really directly about power/weight ratio, it is also the transmission. e.g a Bugatti Veyron has 1200 HP, at 1888 kg, can reach 430 km/hr; compared to a F1 car ~980 HP, 642 kg max, but can only go up to 375 km/hr; the Veyron have a worse power/weight ratio but can go up to a higher speed because of the final gear ratio and it is trading acceleration for top speed.

Same with tanks, a M1A2 can go to 67 km/hr while a T72 can go to 60, but the T72 have a better power/weight ratio.
 

superdog

Junior Member
I have been following this competition on rt, and keeping the type96a in particular attention, since the rest are t72 variants. The 96a does seems under powered compare with the T72b3, it quite visually obvious. But does not seemed to hindered by any of the slopes and handles them quite well.

The russian's T72b3 is said to be powered by a 1130hp engine and lighter (45 tons) . While the 96a is said to be 50 tons with 1000hp. By deduction, that is about 20 percent difference in power. Type 96a is not going win any rat race in this competition with the T72.

Which brings me to another observation. From tyleo video post at about 5.58, the 96a does seemed to acurately acquire targets at a much faster rate. In fact, even though the russian were at the firing site first (for quite a while) before the chinese. The chinese have to wait for their last shot, same as the russian, even though they had already acquired the target for about a full minute. Had the chinese been allowed to shoot first than the russian. The chinese could have complete the course first, then have to wait for the target to be prepared again.

So it seemed such competition does not reflect performance in the actual tactical battlefields. The type 96a may have better AT protection and chances of firing the first shot makes all the difference.

That said, I wish the type 96a have a more powerful engine, I feel it's really strolling at track, watching sunset.
According to an Interview with the staff officers of the Chinese team, T-72B3M has 1130hp, T-72BV has 900hp, and 96A only has 800hp with top speed of 45 (kmph), all three types of tanks use manual transmission. They believe the 96A's advantage is in fire control and armor, but the competition focused more on mobility, especially that the speed race was increased to 9km in the second day and they were only notified a day before. They also commented that the shooting section was "too easy" without any moving target or firing on the move. They confirmed that in the first day of speed race a 96A broke down due to damaged track after colliding with an overtaking Russian team T-72. In addition, they claimed that on the first day of shooting a hit by the 96A was not counted by the referee because their gun has higher muzzle velocity and makes a smaller hole, as a result the referee didn't see the trajectory and they missed the hole, whereas the T-72's trajectory were more observable. In the end they praised the quality of training and training facility of the Russian Army.

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superdog

Junior Member
The 96A's production may have ended or is near the end so I doubt we'll see a higher output 96A in the future. They're probably transitioning to the newer 99 series and the new light tanks .
 

luhai

Banned Idiot
According to an Interview with the staff officers of the Chinese team, T-72B3M has 1130hp, T-72BV has 900hp, and 96A only has 800hp with top speed of 45 (kmph), all three types of tanks use manual transmission. They believe the 96A's advantage is in fire control and armor, but the competition focused more on mobility, especially that the speed race was increased to 9km in the second day and they were only notified a day before. They also commented that the shooting section was "too easy" without any moving target or firing on the move. They confirmed that in the first day of speed race a 96A broke down due to damaged track after colliding with an overtaking Russian team T-72. In addition, they claimed that on the first day of shooting a hit by the 96A was not counted by the referee because their gun has higher muzzle velocity and makes a smaller hole, as a result the referee didn't see the trajectory and they missed the hole, whereas the T-72's trajectory were more observable. In the end they praised the quality of training and training facility of the Russian Army.

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If it's true that Type 96 is 800 hp instead of 1000hp, then it's quite disappointing. This means from type 85 to type 88 to type 96 there isn't a corresponding increase in engine when the entire tank got heavier. Weak engine was a problem back then even in the Type 85 days, too bad it still plagues the tank series.

This would match the export variant of the Type-96, which only have 800 hp. Now it's either the Type-96A performance characteristic is same the the export variant at 800hp, or that PLA sent the export variant to Russia... However the top speed at much lower at 57kmh rather than 65kmh..
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any why do we not have a ZTZ-96 thread.
 
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Franklin

Captain
It needs to be said that the T-72B3M is a specially constructed tank for the tank biathlon and is not a standard production tank.
 
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antiterror13

Brigadier
If it's true that Type 96 is 800 hp instead of 1000hp, then it's quite disappointing. This means from type 85 to type 88 to type 96 there isn't a corresponding increase in engine when the entire tank got heavier. Weak engine was a problem back then even in the Type 85 days, too bad it still plagues the tank series.

This would match the export variant of the Type-96, which only have 800 hp. Now it's either the Type-96A performance characteristic is same the the export variant at 800hp, or that PLA sent the export variant to Russia... However the top speed at much lower at 57kmh rather than 65kmh..
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any why do we not have a ZTZ-96 thread.

No, .... Type 96 is always powered by 1,000 HP engine and I believe even 1,200 HP for Type 96A. China has mastered of this engine long time ago, so shouldn't be any issue
 

luhai

Banned Idiot
No, .... Type 96 is always powered by 1,000 HP engine and I believe even 1,200 HP for Type 96A. China has mastered of this engine long time ago, so shouldn't be any issue

If that's case, then the PLA training staff director (oranizer of the Chinese team at Tank biathlon) lied in an official interview. This from the Chinese article superdog quoted.

卢宇光:我们请到了中国坦克代表团、参谋部陆军训练处的处长谭贺元,以及中国人民解放军总参谋部陆军训练处的李涛参谋,来进行本次关于坦克大赛的访谈。

.....

卢宇光:有很多人提出,这次坦克竞赛主要是结合俄罗斯前几年坦克竞赛所设计的这些科目。很多人讲,没有将中国的一些坦克的比如说刚才讲到的火控系统的先进因素考虑进去,还是更多考虑坦克兵个人素质,还有坦克过雷区、倾斜坡,这些有很多因素和坦克的质量、机动性有很大的内在的联系。谭处长,您怎么评价我们坦克兵在这次比赛中的表现?

谭贺元:我们的队员是这次参赛代表了坦克兵比较高的水平,也是优选出来的。训练有素、作风也很好,精神面貌也很出色,这个得到了俄方还有其他国家的队员的好评。从比赛的情况看,我们队员在比赛中总体上表现很出色,比如说炮打的很准,驾驶员在不熟悉竞赛道路条件场地情况下也发挥了自己应有的水平。

卢宇光:我个人也当过兵,我可以这样肯定的说,我们现场目击到,我们的兵、战斗员、乘员组非常的出色,而且和其他国家的坦克车相比,我们的素质是相当过硬的。我个人这么认为,参加一次比赛,或者是进行一次实地的作战有两个非常重要的因素,一个是战斗员,另外就是装备。我个人认为,在这次比赛中,尽管前一段我们没有夺得比较好的名次,但是我们参与了,而且我们展示出我们的勇气。所体现出的弱点主要是装备。当然了坦克在作战中不能排除出故障的概率,但是96A坦克在参加这次重大比赛的过程中,火控方面它确实表现出了自己的优势,但是在动力和机动性方面当然也是有差距的。您怎样认为?

谭处长:我们当初在研究96A这个坦克,最开始设计的马力就是800马力,这个不是后天可以改变的,我们没有说为了参赛把我们的装备进行性能上的大的改进这样。

虽然说马力上是与T-72坦克相比小一些,机动性受到一定影响,但是我们的队员在比赛过程中还是能够开足马力,把它的性能发挥到极致,认真过好每一个障碍,总体表现我认为还是很好的。

卢宇光:我们把话题转一转,轻松一点,参加坦克比赛体力好比较大,咱们吃的都是俄餐,也有中餐,对保障体力的消耗有很大的影响。咱们现在的伙食怎么样?

谭贺元:俄方从24号开始正式提供完善的西餐。从品种、类型还有营养方面看也是不错的。但由于中餐和西餐还是区别太大,队员都是第一次到达俄罗斯这个地方,吃西餐有适应过程。早餐还是以西餐为主,比赛期间,我们也协调了一些中餐馆,给我们补充一下中餐。主要是能让我们的队员参加高强度的竞赛,保持更好的体力。

Google translate from


Lu Yuguang: We go to the Chinese tanks delegation, the Director of Army Training Staff at Tan HE Yuan, General Staff of the PLA General Staff Headquarters and the Army Training Department Li Tao to conduct this interview on the tank contest.

......

Lu Yuguang: There are a lot of people suggested that this is mainly a combination of Russian tanks contest a few years ago designed tanks contest these subjects. A lot of people say that there is no factor in some of China's advanced tank fire control system for example just mentioned into account, or more tank crews consider personal qualities, as well as tanks over minefields, tilt slope, which has a lot of factors and tanks quality, great mobility intrinsically linked. Tan Director, how do you evaluate the performance of our tank crews in this game?

**** He Yuan Tan: Our players are participating on behalf of the relatively high level tank crews also preferred out. Well-trained, style is also very good, morale is very good, this was the Russian side there are other countries players praise. Look at the situation from the game, our players in the game overall performance is very good, for example, is very accurate gun fight, the driver in unfamiliar situations under competition venues road conditions also play its due level.

**** Lu Yuguang: Personally, I have been a soldier, I can say with certainty that witnessed our soldiers, combatants, very good crew we live, but also tanks and other countries compared to our quality is quite excellent the. Personally, I think so, to participate in a contest, or conduct a field of battle there are two very important factors, one is the combatants, the other is the equipment. I personally believe that in this game, even though we have not won before some relatively good ranking, but our participation, and we show our courage. Embodied weakness mainly equipment. Of course, the tanks in combat probability of failure can not be ruled out, however 96A tanks in the process of participating in this major tournament, the fire control aspects of it really showed their advantages, but in the power and maneuverability of course, there are gaps . What do you think?

**** Tan Director: We did this study 96A tanks design the most horsepower is 800 horsepower, this is not the day after tomorrow can be changed, we do not say that in order to run our equipment, large improvements in performance such.

**** Although the horsepower is small compared to T-72 tanks, some mobility be affected, but our players during the game was able to go full steam ahead, put it to maximize the performance, bustin 'good every obstacle, I think the overall performance is very good.

**** Lu Yuguang: We put the topic of a turn, a little easier, to participate in a large tank like the physical game, we are eating Russian food, but also Chinese, the protection of physical consumption has a great influence. Let's now how about food?

He Yuan Tan: Russia from the 24th to start a formal offer perfect western. From the variety, type of view there is good nutrition. However, due to differences between Chinese and Western food, or too much, players are first arrived in Russia this place, there is the process of adaptation to eat Western food. Breakfast is still dominated by Western, during the game, we have coordinated a number of restaurants, give us add Chinese food. Mainly allow our players to participate in high-intensity competition, maintain better physical strength.
 
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