New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

tphuang

tphuang

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4Runner said:
I have a different take on BYD vis-a-vis R&D. First, I am not dismissing any BYD advancements in all fields of NEV engineering and manufacturing. But BYD took off primarily due to hiring of Wolfgang Egger as its global design chief and Michele Jauch-Paganetti as its global interior design director who previously worked at Mercedes-Benz. The next deciding factor was BYD betting its farm on LFP blade battery. All other advancements are natural technological progress thanks to its massive scale of efficiency.
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hmm, its was undercutting everyone before it started scaling. How do you think it was able to do DM-i at the pricing point it was pricing back in 2021 and 2022? This was before it hit 2 million sales
4Runner said:
As I said before, people are underestimating what Huawei is trying to accomplish, which is way more difficult than it sounds. Two concrete examples that no other global car companies have ever accomplish in such a short-order: (1) AITO M9 (550K) and (2) Maextro S800 (1000K). I personally owned an Audi A6 (C6 gen) 3.0T Quattro for 10 years and my brother owned an S500 for a few years. There are many material or physical factors in a luxury vehicle that people are willing to pay >USD60K for.

One or two years ago I was favoring HIMA for intelligent mobility based on my industrial knowledge and experience. Now I am willing to bet my net worth that HIMA is going to dominate luxury segments of China automobile markets for many years to come. BYD is not even close.
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That's great, you should invest in Seres then. There is no shortage of people doing that in China.

The amusing thing about Huawei fanboy on this forum is that they need to trash Xiaomi or BYD to make their point.

yungho said:
HIMA strength is its software imo. Similar to Apple if they keep making HIMA better and integrate it with other Huawei products than it creates a strong moat.
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no question. HIMA's strength is software and AI as a whole. They have great branding and sales. Their sales channel is top notch. There are many things HIMA is doing well that should not be underestimated.

As I tell everyone. China is a very competitive auto market. Aside from Xiaomi, everyone has to really work hard for sales at the moment. HIMA has gone through plenty of its own growing pains along the way.
 
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PeoplesPoster

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4Runner said:
I have a different take on BYD vis-a-vis R&D. First, I am not dismissing any BYD advancements in all fields of NEV engineering and manufacturing. But BYD took off primarily due to hiring of Wolfgang Egger as its global design chief and Michele Jauch-Paganetti as its global interior design director who previously worked at Mercedes-Benz. The next deciding factor was BYD betting its farm on LFP blade battery. All other advancements are natural technological progress thanks to its massive scale of efficiency.
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Not sure if this is true, while BYD styling has improved since they came on, it’s still considered one of their largest weaknesses. Typically very conservative or just strange like the ocean series.
 
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henrik

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4Runner said:
Not really. This year is turning out to be more challenging to BYD growth in domestic market, primarily because its lead in 100K-300K segments is not as formidable as 2024 or 2023. As people in China are saying this year: the first phase of China NEV race in electrical platforms is over; now is the phase of intelligent mobility. The most important factor in my book is maturity of China NEV ecosystem, which makes BYD vertical integration not as formidable as earlier years. BYD is doing great in overseas market, but it will be challenging to maintain reasonable growth in China. SAIC 尚界 will be attacking 200k segments, which are bread and butter for BYD profit margins. Even though SAIC lost its lead in the first phase of NEV saga, nobody in Chinese auto business will write down SAIC. So it is going to be an interesting watch.

BYD's efforts in luxury segments turn out be mixed bags. FCB is a success story. But cars and SUVs in 300K ~ 500K ranges are the most significant battle fields, which BYD is not yet an established brand. I am one of those minority who see more challenging years ahead for BYD in China NEV segments.
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Huawei does not have batteries technology like BYD, and they need to sell overseas, for which BYD already has a large number of ships.
 
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supersnoop

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So what does Huawei/HIMA actually provide?
Seems like a software stack as well as certain bits of hardware including motor, a CATL-sourced battery, ADAS, and some other bits. The manufacturer then builds the platform around this (ie. suspension, interior)? I don’t think there is any supplier like this. If anyone is familiar with the tribulations of VW/Caridad (and Ford recently), they were unable to build a software defined vehicle leading to the delay of the Q6/Macan EV. The one released was not what they wanted to do. As such they invested in Rivian who proceeded to prototype a Q6 with zonal architecture, the importance of which is to enable OTA updates of vehicle functionality beyond the entertainment system.

sabiothailand said:
As far as we know, no confirmed system issues with Xiaomi YU7, right?

I heard things about it not stopping after parking or it's wheels/tires being on fire which I think hasn't happened yet.
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sh*t man, do you get all your Chinese EV news from Falun Gong?
 
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sabiothailand

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supersnoop said:
So what does Huawei/HIMA actually provide?
Seems like a software stack as well as certain bits of hardware including motor, a CATL-sourced battery, ADAS, and some other bits. The manufacturer then builds the platform around this (ie. suspension, interior)? I don’t think there is any supplier like this. If anyone is familiar with the tribulations of VW/Caridad (and Ford recently), they were unable to build a software defined vehicle leading to the delay of the Q6/Macan EV. The one released was not what they wanted to do. As such they invested in Rivian who proceeded to prototype a Q6 with zonal architecture, the importance of which is to enable OTA updates of vehicle functionality beyond the entertainment system.


sh*t man, do you get all your Chinese EV news from Falun Gong?
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look idk man, my dad just told me that.

But of course Im skeptical, its like all his sources are just youtube car geeks or sum shit.
 
4Runner

4Runner

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Legume7 said:
Yes, BYD had a first-mover advantage and still maintains competitiveness (FCB + U8 + D9 are selling well), but HIMA is the undisputed top brand in the high-end NEV space now. Outside of some initial missteps (Luxeed R7 and S7), pretty much all of HIMA's new models (AITO M9 (2025) and M8, Stelato S9 EREV, Maextro S800) have been selling like hotcakes. They also have the AITO M7 and, potentially, M6, Stelato S9T, Maextro MPV and SUV, Shangjie H5 coming in the next year.
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Luxeed problems are internal, which are manifested as external vis-a-vis HIMA in general and models in particular. The key factor is Chery's long-time strategy of multi-route parallel-execution approach. Even though Chery chairman Yin Tong Yue (尹同跃) leads Luxeed collaboration, there are also competing business such as iCAR and 大卓智能 business groups. Unlike Seres and BAIC, Chery was already a very successful car company globally before Luxeed JV. Therefore, it is not surprising that HIMA JV Luxeed meets challengers inside the company.

From model competition in the broad China NEV markets, R7 is a success story while S7 faded too fast into an awkward value proposition today. Given this not-so-happy collaboration, I seriously doubt HIME particularly Yu Cheng Dong would favor Luxeed going forward. In this context, Seres AITO is HIMA alter ego, Maextro S800 is an early success, BAIC is slowly catching up, and SAIC 尚界 is a result of internal shake-up and going all-in with HIMA. I think the next key event to watch is the new M7 iterations, which is key to 300K segments, while M5 is a very crowded niche segment.
 
4Runner

4Runner

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tphuang said:
hmm, its was undercutting everyone before it started scaling. How do you think it was able to do DM-i at the pricing point it was pricing back in 2021 and 2022? This was before it hit 2 million sales

That's great, you should invest in Seres then. There is no shortage of people doing that in China.

The amusing thing about Huawei fanboy on this forum is that they need to trash Xiaomi or BYD to make their point.


no question. HIMA's strength is software and AI as a whole. They have great branding and sales. Their sales channel is top notch. There are many things HIMA is doing well that should not be underestimated.

As I tell everyone. China is a very competitive auto market. Aside from Xiaomi, everyone has to really work hard for sales at the moment. HIMA has gone through plenty of its own growing pains along the way.
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Don't get me wrong. BYD is by far the most successful car company and brand from China since 1984. And it is going to be a global top-5 or even top-3 in a few years. And it is a highly innovative company in comparison with SAIC, GAIC, BAIC, FAW, Dongfeng, etc. But we were talking about luxury segments in today's China car market in general and NEV in particular. I never trashed any NEV company, even though I despised those 买办 car companies. I am not a Huawei fanboy, actually I despised its domestic competition practices before. But in the context of China NEV evolution, numbers and facts are speaking fairly openly. And I never say a bad word about Xiaomi ever, even though I fully understand its fundamental business model. BYD chose ADAS for its FCB models.
 
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