New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

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supersnoop

Colonel
Registered Member
StraightEdge said:
Lei Jun Drifting on ice with SU7 Ultra.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1881653550461374939
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Interesting to note that this is posted on X which is not openly accessible in China, but the only market where the SU7 is available. Clear pandering to the growing international following of the SU7. It has been trending for a while, but since Jim Farley's comments, it's viral.
(as an aside, a hilarious obvious breach of the GFW that I'm sure people who pretend to care about these things won't notice)

I hope it's battery is better than the similar looking Taycan which has been recalled for the 1 millionth time...

mossen said:
The key to avoiding getting eaten by a bear isn't to run faster than the bear - you just have to run faster than the guy next to you.

As bad as Tesla gets, as long as they are in a better shape than legacy auto's EV efforts, they will have a captive domestic audience in the US. But it seems clear that Tesla isn't really a global leader anymore... and hasn't been for a long time.



Geely is probably the most impressive EV company in China outside of the more recent start-ups like Xiaomi, Xpeng etc. With the benefit of hindsight, Volvo was really lucky that they got new ownership from China back in 2010. If they had the old US owners, the company would today be totally left out of the loop in terms of EV progress. The German carmakers could also potentially benefit, but that would probably require Geely to increase its ownership rate considerably first.
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Tesla's car is simply boring
When you have Chinese cars showing off (or even something like the Hummer) crab walking, floating, active MEMs suspension, Dolby Atmos theatre, portable "generator" (V2L) features, etc, meanwhile the Tesla models all basically look like the same from when they were first released 10 years ago, it begs the question "What's the point?"

I don't think Geely is that impressive technology wise, but they are on the ball (that is unlike many of the older generation of Chinese car makers, they knew to move to EV). Their acumen is more business than anything IMO. If you think of Volvo being lucky by being divested by Ford, please look at JLR which was divested at the same time by Ford and sold to Tata.

In fact, take a look at Jaguar's latest ad campaign and tell me what you think...
 
sunnymaxi

sunnymaxi

Major
Registered Member
Second of its kind in mainland China after Tesla Shanghai factory..

Toyota to build Lexus factory in Shanghai​


Toyota Motor Corp announced on Wednesday that it will construct a new Lexus factory in Shanghai as the company seeks to strengthen its development and manufacturing capabilities in the Chinese market.

The plant, set to begin operations in 2027 or later, will focus on producing electric vehicles (EVs) and automotive batteries.

Unlike previous ventures in China, the factory will be wholly owned by Toyota rather than operated as a joint venture. The initial production capacity is expected to be around 100,000 units per year, with approximately 1,000 new jobs planned at the start of operations.

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Lethe

Lethe

Captain
Disappointing January sales for BYD in Australia. Apparently the first batch of Sharks delivered (450)
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, but even if they had been it would've been a down month for the brand.

January 2025 sales in Australia
MG: 3740 sales, #7, down 7%
GWM: 3433 sales, #8, up 10%
Chery: 1837 sales, #13, up 152%
LDV: 1193 sales, #18, down 34%
Tesla: 739 sales, #21, down 33%
BYD: 675 sales, #22, down 49%
JAC: 204 sales, #33, NEW
Leapmotor: 22 sales, #45, NEW

Source:
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BYD Australia blames "port delays" (in Australia) for the results. Sure, ok, that was a
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. Yet those port delays didn't stop GWM, Chery, or any number of other brands from posting YoY gains. 100% of light vehicle sales come through those ports. At this point it's just a blip, but one would hope that February results tell a very different story. Excepting BYD, all the other results are broadly consistent with trends over the past 12 months. Chery seems to be ramping nicely, with their new Tiggo 4 Pro small crossover SUV making up more than half of sales.
 
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4Runner

4Runner

Senior Member
Registered Member
sunnymaxi said:
Second of its kind in mainland China after Tesla Shanghai factory..

Toyota to build Lexus factory in Shanghai​


Toyota Motor Corp announced on Wednesday that it will construct a new Lexus factory in Shanghai as the company seeks to strengthen its development and manufacturing capabilities in the Chinese market.

The plant, set to begin operations in 2027 or later, will focus on producing electric vehicles (EVs) and automotive batteries.

Unlike previous ventures in China, the factory will be wholly owned by Toyota rather than operated as a joint venture. The initial production capacity is expected to be around 100,000 units per year, with approximately 1,000 new jobs planned at the start of operations.

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The timing of this announcement is very interesting. When the news of Lexus wanting whole-owned Shanghai operation circulated a few months ago, I checked local sources and it was not very likely. Now it is official. What does it actually mean to the real world?

(1) Lexus in Shanghai plus China EV supply chain cannot be dismissed easily.
If Toyota follows local practices with local talents, it will have immediate impact on Tesla sales in China.

(2) Year 2027 is interesting.
It was said that Toyota was desperately trying to salvage its China business. So why not following Tesla playbook and getting it down in 12 months? Maybe locals do not necessarily want it that way? Could it be a warning of sort? Imagine Lexus catches up in EV.

(3) What about BBA?
It was mentioned long time ago that BBA wanted whole-owned China operations. Tesla is already here largely because of Musk and Li, a very special case. But if Lexus comes in and jumps ahead of BBA in EV, the consequences could be grave. Would there be leverages in dealing with Germans on other issues?

(4) It essentially gives 2-year deferred sentence to all Chinese EV vendors who are not BYD, Li Auto, Seres, Chery, Geely, Changan or Xiao Mi. It would be likely that Nio and Xpeng etc. become M&A targets.

(5) If Lexus is allowed 100% owned and operated in China, what about Chinese auto makers in Japan?
Toyota is likely going to be the only viable auto maker from Japan in the EV era. It may materialize in 5 years or 10 years. If I extrapolate from reality today, I don't see feasible way-out for Nissan or Honda. Is there any implication in China-Japan relationship? What about China-Korea relationship?

It is getting ever more interesting in the next 4 years ......
 
M

Michael90

Junior Member
Registered Member
4Runner said:
The timing of this announcement is very interesting. When the news of Lexus wanting whole-owned Shanghai operation circulated a few months ago, I checked local sources and it was not very likely. Now it is official. What does it actually mean to the real world?

(1) Lexus in Shanghai plus China EV supply chain cannot be dismissed easily.
If Toyota follows local practices with local talents, it will have immediate impact on Tesla sales in China.

(2) Year 2027 is interesting.
It was said that Toyota was desperately trying to salvage its China business. So why not following Tesla playbook and getting it down in 12 months? Maybe locals do not necessarily want it that way? Could it be a warning of sort? Imagine Lexus catches up in EV.

(3) What about BBA?
It was mentioned long time ago that BBA wanted whole-owned China operations. Tesla is already here largely because of Musk and Li, a very special case. But if Lexus comes in and jumps ahead of BBA in EV, the consequences could be grave. Would there be leverages in dealing with Germans on other issues?

(4) It essentially gives 2-year deferred sentence to all Chinese EV vendors who are not BYD, Li Auto, Seres, Chery, Geely, Changan or Xiao Mi. It would be likely that Nio and Xpeng etc. become M&A targets.

(5) If Lexus is allowed 100% owned and operated in China, what about Chinese auto makers in Japan?
Toyota is likely going to be the only viable auto maker from Japan in the EV era. It may materialize in 5 years or 10 years. If I extrapolate from reality today, I don't see feasible way-out for Nissan or Honda. Is there any implication in China-Japan relationship? What about China-Korea relationship?

It is getting ever more interesting in the next 4 years ......
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I don't really think it's that serious/deep.
 
4Runner

4Runner

Senior Member
Registered Member
Michael90 said:
I don't really think it's that serious/deep.
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You have no idea what Tesla/Lexus ventures mean to China in general and to Shanghai in particular. I guess you certainly do have any idea about the proverbial "wars" on choosing GM over Ford and Toyota in 1997. So I guess you were not originally from mainland China?
 
L

luminary

Senior Member
Registered Member
The merger is cancelled unless Nissan agrees to subordination.

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Reuters reported earlier that Nissan could call off talks after Honda sounded it out about becoming a subsidiary. Nissan baulked as this was a departure from what was originally framed as a merger of equals, one of the people said.

Honda, whose market value of about ¥7.92 trillion ($51.90 billion) is more than five times bigger than Nissan's at ¥1.44 trillion, was increasingly worried about its smaller rival's progress on the turnaround plan, another source said.
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