Near confrontation between American and Iranian Naval forces

AssassinsMace said:

Of course you have to be alert in such situations but since those in the speed boats started to make verbal taunts at the US Navy, it probably means they weren't really going to do anything.

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Wouldn't that be the perfect way to cover a real attack? Act in a way that makes your enemy think you won't attack and then go for it.

This is another attempt by Iran to raise tensions. The USN will have to respond by giving less scope to Iran security operations in the area. One would have thought that after the kidnapping of the Royal Navy sailors last year they'd realise next time someone might die. But they seem to think they have an endless supply of "get out of jail free" cards. Eventually the Coalition is going to run out of patience and decide to put the safety of their own ships first and open fire.

Or maybe they're counting on that....

I never heard of the potential attacker/bomber "warn" their target right before the strike.

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That they were in close proximity to the vessels was warning enough - they could be seen clearly enough. Whether they had said anything on the radio or not wouldn't have made a difference to how they were perceived given their aggressive actions.

Sure they would've loved to have the US Navy fire on them first. Why do this then if they wanted to start a war? I'm sure they have plenty of anti-ship missiles in range to do the job. And let's all remember that nothing happened. So all these notions that they were going to attack are pretty much moot.

Hmmm

The transcript does sound like something from a Hollywood B Movie doesnt it.

I also notice that Mr Bush is about to make a major tour of the Middle East, principally to try and shore up support for his Iran policy.

Others have commentated on the similarities between Mr Bush's situation with Iran now and Mr Carter's in 79 when he was approaching the end of his Presidency.

The transcript does sound like something from a Hollywood B Movie doesnt it

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All USN personnel are trained to communicate in clear distinct monotone voices. Just like a B movie. It's been that way forever.

Those Iranians are lucky to still be drawing a breath today.

If the USN is wise it better make sure it VBSS teams are well guarded. I'm sure the US does not want a repeat of the RN Vs Iran this past summer.

AssassinsMace said:

Why do this then if they wanted to start a war? I'm sure they have plenty of anti-ship missiles in range to do the job.

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Iran wouldn't be so stupid as to launch an unprovoked attack. It would much prefer to manufacture a way such that it could appear the victim, take what they would term "fair retaliation" and then hope US public opinion would stop the US counter-attacking.

And let's all remember that nothing happened.

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Because the USN showed great restraint. As I pointed out, Iran should have stopped after the RN event. It can't keep pulling this crap without someone getting killed and the threat of war descending.

AssassinsMace said:

And let's all remember that nothing happened. So all these notions that they were going to attack are pretty much moot.

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Something most certainly did happen. Five very fast and very manueverable Naval craft of the Iranian navy manuevered within a couple to three hundred yards of major US combatants. Any one of them, or all of them, could have had their hulls full of high explosives. Any one, or all of them, could have been intent on suicide attacks.

Just because they had life vests on does not in the least say that this was not their intent. In fact, I would posit that if they intended to do suicide attacks, they would look as much like they were not going to as possible, so that up until the point that one or all of them turned in very quickly to attack from just a few hundred yards away, the Americans would doubt they were doing it.

If all five were close and all five acted in concert to turn towards one of these ships...it could have gotten very dangerous for the particular ship in question.

I believe the Iranians were testing the US, checking out just how close they could come, and will be developing doctrine, tactics, and plans based on what they learned.

I know that the US showed restraint...I personally believe, that after the many provocations by the Iranians both on sea and at land...that the time is quickly coming when restraint should not be shown. It's too dangerous...and, IMHIO, remembering that I was not there and do not know the specific ROEs...but nonetheless, after seeing the official films and listening to both sides...I do not believe restraint to that degree should have been shown. But that's just my opinion.

Iran wouldn't be so stupid as to launch an unprovoked attack. It would much prefer to manufacture a way such that it could appear the victim, take what they would term "fair retaliation" and then hope US public opinion would stop the US counter-attacking.

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And that's why I said they would've loved if the US fired first.

Because the USN showed great restraint. As I pointed out, Iran should have stopped after the RN event. It can't keep pulling this crap without someone getting killed and the threat of war descending.

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The RN was admittedly close to Iranian waters. In this case, I don't think five little speeds boats could take over and hold the crews of US Navy warships passing through the Straits.

Something most certainly did happen. Five very fast and very manueverable Naval craft of the Iranian navy manuevered within a couple to three hundred yards of major US combatants. Any one of them, or all of them, could have had their hulls full of high explosives. Any one, or all of them, could have been intent on suicide attacks.

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Nothing happened in regards to Iranian intentions. No attack took place. If they were actually going to attack, wouldn't they have found better tactics than to show up during the daylight and speed around and taunt on the radio. If I wanted success in an attack especially if the intention was to set off a boat load full of explosives, I would avoid those things because if spotted, the lesser chance of success.

A lot of people are talking as if there was an intent to attack and for some reason it was thwarted or called off. By the looks of what happened, the primary reason probably was to poke a finger in the US's eye. I think the Iranians are smarter than the stereotype of all enemies of the West. If that was their plan of attack, that was pretty stupid. That's why it's probably nothing more than taunting the US. And the US should've been on full alert. That's the only professional thing to do.

AssassinsMace said:

The RN was admittedly close to Iranian waters.

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That's irrelevant. As was indicated several times on this forum, being near to/straying over the line does not entitle someone to kidnap others.

In this case, I don't think five little speeds boats could take over and hold the crews of US Navy warships passing through the Straits.

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No one suggested they would. What I was pointing out is that Iran had already raised tensions - to think it could arse about with impunity a second time was moronic.

If they were actually going to attack, wouldn't they have found better tactics than to show up during the daylight and speed around and taunt on the radio.

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No, because the point has already been made and you've agreed that the Iranians would want the USN to attack first. So they would do whatever they could to induce an attack whilst looking like the victim.

By the looks of what happened, the primary reason probably was to poke a finger in the US's eye.

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Maybe, but how many times are they going to pull this sort of crap? How many times do they think they can get away with it? It's as if they don't care if the shooting starts, which is why I wondered whether someone are trying to create a situation.

If the USN don't take defensive measures next time they could be laying themselves open to an attack. This could mean some more Iranian morons going on a "jolly", getting killed and then Iran and the US facing a very sticky situation, maybe even war.

Imagine if the Japanese coastguard had been playing tag with a Chinese taskforce on exercises. I'm sure some members of this board would be beating their chests and screaming blue murder.

FuManChu said:

That's irrelevant. As was indicated several times on this forum, being near to/straying over the line does not entitle someone to kidnap others.



No one suggested they would. What I was pointing out is that Iran had already raised tensions - to think it could arse about with impunity a second time was moronic.



No, because the point has already been made and you've agreed that the Iranians would want the USN to attack first. So they would do whatever they could to induce an attack whilst looking like the victim.



Maybe, but how many times are they going to pull this sort of crap? How many times do they think they can get away with it? It's as if they don't care if the shooting starts, which is why I wondered whether someone are trying to create a situation.

If the USN don't take defensive measures next time they could be laying themselves open to an attack. This could mean some more Iranian morons going on a "jolly", getting killed and then Iran and the US facing a very sticky situation, maybe even war.

Imagine if the Japanese coastguard had been playing tag with a Chinese taskforce on exercises. I'm sure some members of this board would be beating their chests and screaming blue murder.

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Then why did you bring it up if it's irrelevant? I haven't read a whole lot on the incident but what I heard was the RN was out there surveilling the Iranians. It wasn't like they were just passing through. Don't you think that would be considered suspicious to the Iranians? Back in the 1990s, a Chinese ship headed to Iran was intercepted and boarded on the Indian Ocean by the US Navy on the suspicion that is was carrying equipment to make checmical weapons. All they found was farm tools. The US navy held the crew for a while under a false suspicion. Well is that kidnapping? So why doesn't Iran get to do that especially since the West has been taunting Iran with attack?

Imagine if the Japanese coastguard had been playing tag with a Chinese taskforce on exercises. I'm sure some members of this board would be beating their chests and screaming blue murder.

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Moderators, unless you want me to respond to this, FuManchu should be issued a warning for what this is apparently now all an attempt to steer this into his pissing contest between the Japanese and Chinese.

A video allegedly from the Iranian side: