Nanjing Massacre 75 years ago today

antiterror13 said:

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A horrible, brutal, and wholly inexcusable event in human history. God continue to rest the souls of so many who were so horribly taken, and those carrying the scars, both physical and emotional of that day/time...and may God give them comfort.

In my faith, His eternal justice will also be meted on those who committed such horrific acts, unless they wholly and completely repent and turn their lives over to God to be used in making it right.

May the commemoration help in all of the above.

The Chinese people should forgive, but never forget, the atrocities that took place during the Japanese invasion. The Nanjing massacre may be the most infamous tragedy, but it is dwarfed by other, less well known tragedies that happened all over China during this time.

solarz said:

The Chinese people should forgive, but never forget, the atrocities that took place during the Japanese invasion. The Nanjing massacre may be the most infamous tragedy, but it is dwarfed by other, less well known tragedies that happened all over China during this time.

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Agreed. As with any event in history, both good and bad...never forget. Write it own, keep the pictures...pass it own to future generations,

If you want to avoid repeating history...you must know history and understand how it came to be so you recognize it should similar events begin to develop.

Conversely, if something worthwhile occurs in history that you want to repeat at a later date, the same principle applies.

So, those who do not know or learn from history are going to ultimately repeat the bad points and will most likely miss out on replicating the good points because they do not know how they came about.

So, in the words of Crosby, Stills and Nash..."teach your children well!".

solarz said:

The Chinese people should forgive, but never forget, the atrocities that took place during the Japanese invasion. The Nanjing massacre may be the most infamous tragedy, but it is dwarfed by other, less well known tragedies that happened all over China during this time.

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In my faith, forgiveness requires confession. If you don't confess, what to forgive? In this case, has there been any confession from the offending party? Should Chinese people forgive? What to forgive?

balance said:

In my faith, forgiveness requires confession. If you don't confess, what to forgive? In this case, has there been any confession from the offending party? Should Chinese people forgive? What to forgive?

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First, forgiveness is a gift to yourself, not to the other party. Keeping on to hatred because you feel the other party has not repented enough is ultimately self-destructive. Remembering the lessons of history but discarding the hatred is the only way to move forward.

Second, Japan acknowledges its war-time atrocities in both its educational curriculum and in its foreign policies. The fact that there is a revisionist vocal minority is an inevitable result of its liberal-democratic system. As an analogy, just because the KKK exists doesn't mean USA is a racist country.

The revisionist minority does have more influence in Japan compared to the KKK, and it does mean that there is room for improvement on this issue for Japan. However, we should still acknowledge the fact that the Japanese people of today are generally a peace-loving people.

Third, it is unrealistic to expect Japan to give up their own national interests. China and Japan are the two biggest economy and cultures in Asia, and there will inevitably be clashes over sensitive issues. This has nothing to do with acknowledgement of their war-time atrocities.

For example, the Diaoyu Islands unquestionably belong to China, and the Chinese government have the right, nay, the *duty* to reclaim them for the Chinese people. However, the Japanese have their own national pride, and their government also have the duty to fight for the interests of its own people. That's what competition is all about.

In the end, the lesson that the Chinese people need to take away from the Nanjing Massacre is not that "the Japanese are evil". No, the lesson is that the Chinese must never allow another invader, whoever it is, to ravage its lands and people. In order to do that, China must always be improving herself and never again fall into complacency and stagnation. 落后就要挨打！

solarz said:

First, forgiveness is a gift to yourself, not to the other party. Keeping on to hatred because you feel the other party has not repented enough is ultimately self-destructive. Remembering the lessons of history but discarding the hatred is the only way to move forward.

Second, Japan acknowledges its war-time atrocities in both its educational curriculum and in its foreign policies. The fact that there is a revisionist vocal minority is an inevitable result of its liberal-democratic system. As an analogy, just because the KKK exists doesn't mean USA is a racist country.

The revisionist minority does have more influence in Japan compared to the KKK, and it does mean that there is room for improvement on this issue for Japan. However, we should still acknowledge the fact that the Japanese people of today are generally a peace-loving people.

Third, it is unrealistic to expect Japan to give up their own national interests. China and Japan are the two biggest economy and cultures in Asia, and there will inevitably be clashes over sensitive issues. This has nothing to do with acknowledgement of their war-time atrocities.

For example, the Diaoyu Islands unquestionably belong to China, and the Chinese government have the right, nay, the *duty* to reclaim them for the Chinese people. However, the Japanese have their own national pride, and their government also have the duty to fight for the interests of its own people. That's what competition is all about.

In the end, the lesson that the Chinese people need to take away from the Nanjing Massacre is not that "the Japanese are evil". No, the lesson is that the Chinese must never allow another invader, whoever it is, to ravage its lands and people. In order to do that, China must always be improving herself and never again fall into complacency and stagnation. 落后就要挨打！

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Don't like to pursue this issue further, but I find it unrealistic to expect China just to forgive like that.
You have to read Iris Chang's book "Nanking Massacre."
The author was depressed and committed suicide after writing the book.
You have to ask: How can people be so evil?
Forgiveness is a gift to yourself, but to deny the pure evilness of the offending party is not right.
Forgiveness should lead to reconciliation, but the evilness of the deed must be addressed in order for that to be achieved.
Raping women with bayonets, using men as bayonet practice, etc.
These evil deeds must be addressed, and Japan must confess in details (not in general or vaguely) the specific atrocities they committed.

Again, in my faith, confession must be specific in order for forgiveness to truly produce reconciliation.
Then both China and Japan can believe that there can be something good between them.

Yes, it is unrealistic to expect Japan to give up their national security.
But it is also unrealistic to put their hope in US all the time.
There is no guarantee that US will always be there, but China is next to Japan all the time.

My advice to Japanese nation who are peace-loving: confess your atrocities in detail, compensate the victim, acknowledge that your culture stems from Chinese (so there is no need for hostility or pretending that you are somebody from another planet). This is a family reconciliation.
Don't invite outside party because these things will never be solved forever if you do.
And it will only lead back to the past militarism.

Believe me: this is the best way for Japan, and I know that their people are more than willing to do this.
Their government, however, is another matter.

balance said:

Don't like to pursue this issue further, but I find it unrealistic to expect China just to forgive like that.
You have to read Iris Chang's book "Nanking Massacre."
The author was depressed and committed suicide after writing the book.
You have to ask: How can people be so evil?
Forgiveness is a gift to yourself, but to deny the pure evilness of the offending party is not right.
Forgiveness should lead to reconciliation, but the evilness of the deed must be addressed in order for that to be achieved.
Raping women with bayonets, using men as bayonet practice, etc.
These evil deeds must be addressed, and Japan must confess in details (not in general or vaguely) the specific atrocities they committed.

Again, in my faith, confession must be specific in order for forgiveness to truly produce reconciliation.
Then both China and Japan can believe that there can be something good between them.

Yes, it is unrealistic to expect Japan to give up their national security.
But it is also unrealistic to put their hope in US all the time.
There is no guarantee that US will always be there, but China is next to Japan all the time.

My advice to Japanese nation who are peace-loving: confess your atrocities in detail, compensate the victim, acknowledge that your culture stems from Chinese (so there is no need for hostility or pretending that you are somebody from another planet). This is a family reconciliation.
Don't invite outside party because these things will never be solved forever if you do.
And it will only lead back to the past militarism.

Believe me: this is the best way for Japan, and I know that their people are more than willing to do this.
Their government, however, is another matter.

Click to expand...

How can people be so evil? It's human nature. Nobody here is denying the atrocity of the Nanjing Massacre. Please read more carefully before jumping to conclusions. The Japanese people of today did not commit any massacres. As for those few who did and have escaped justice, I fully support their arrest and prosecution as war criminals.

Again, as I said, forgiveness is a way for the Chinese people to move forward. The Japanese don't care one whit whether the Chinese harbor a grudge or not. On the other hand, hating the Japanese can easily become a vulnerability for the Chinese. Like the Muslims who start rioting and killing their own people every time an anti-islam video is uploaded to Youtube. I, for one, have no wish to see Chinese act like that.

Finally, no, you *don't* know what's best for Japan. It is supremely arrogant to think that you do. Only the Japanese people know what's best for Japan. It's not up to China to decide what Japan should or should not do.

What China should do, and I believe the current CCP government knows this full well, is to strengthen itself such that it will never again be put into a position of weakness like 100 years ago.

solarz said:

First, forgiveness is a gift to yourself, not to the other party. Keeping on to hatred because you feel the other party has not repented enough is ultimately self-destructive. Remembering the lessons of history but discarding the hatred is the only way to move forward.

Second, Japan acknowledges its war-time atrocities in both its educational curriculum and in its foreign policies. The fact that there is a revisionist vocal minority is an inevitable result of its liberal-democratic system. As an analogy, just because the KKK exists doesn't mean USA is a racist country.

The revisionist minority does have more influence in Japan compared to the KKK, and it does mean that there is room for improvement on this issue for Japan. However, we should still acknowledge the fact that the Japanese people of today are generally a peace-loving people.

Third, it is unrealistic to expect Japan to give up their own national interests. China and Japan are the two biggest economy and cultures in Asia, and there will inevitably be clashes over sensitive issues. This has nothing to do with acknowledgement of their war-time atrocities.

For example, the Diaoyu Islands unquestionably belong to China, and the Chinese government have the right, nay, the *duty* to reclaim them for the Chinese people. However, the Japanese have their own national pride, and their government also have the duty to fight for the interests of its own people. That's what competition is all about.

In the end, the lesson that the Chinese people need to take away from the Nanjing Massacre is not that "the Japanese are evil". No, the lesson is that the Chinese must never allow another invader, whoever it is, to ravage its lands and people. In order to do that, China must always be improving herself and never again fall into complacency and stagnation. 落后就要挨打！

Click to expand...

solarz said:

How can people be so evil? It's human nature. Nobody here is denying the atrocity of the Nanjing Massacre. Please read more carefully before jumping to conclusions. The Japanese people of today did not commit any massacres. As for those few who did and have escaped justice, I fully support their arrest and prosecution as war criminals.

Again, as I said, forgiveness is a way for the Chinese people to move forward. The Japanese don't care one whit whether the Chinese harbor a grudge or not. On the other hand, hating the Japanese can easily become a vulnerability for the Chinese. Like the Muslims who start rioting and killing their own people every time an anti-islam video is uploaded to Youtube. I, for one, have no wish to see Chinese act like that.

Finally, no, you *don't* know what's best for Japan. It is supremely arrogant to think that you do. Only the Japanese people know what's best for Japan. It's not up to China to decide what Japan should or should not do.

What China should do, and I believe the current CCP government knows this full well, is to strengthen itself such that it will never again be put into a position of weakness like 100 years ago.

Click to expand...

Very well said man. The whole incident is very tragic. The only true angry fingers we should point at are at the ones who had already been hung and tried for their crimes -- Class A war criminals of Japan. They orchestrate everything, and these monsters not only put the entire world in danger, they also put their own people in danger and destroyed history. The friendship and harmony and peacefulness both peoples enjoyed with each other had been destroyed. The bilateral relationship between both country had never been genuine after the war. Japanese suffered and died for the insanity of those militarist few. Children, women, civilians, and the lives of soldiers and the invaded were at their fault. They can never redeem until they were burned in a billion hells. The tragedy they caused didn't happen merely to Koreans or Chinese or victims of Japanese aggression; their own people were too.

From my social psychology stuffs, if anyone recall Stanley Milgram's Obedience to Authority, the study was to inquire if modern humans could be evil like the Nazis(and certainly the IJ). The results ended with most participants administering a simulated lethal shock to a man with heart problems..simply because of the calls of authority. Combine these with ingroup-outgroup sentiments in a collectivist culture, resocialization by the military, intentional desensitization attempts by degrading their targets as subhuman institutionalized by their military leaders, and you breed a perfect army of psychopathic sadists.

I want everyone to understand that I think people are born decent by default. No one, and no specific groups of people can be born evil. Instead it is what our environment do to them, which causes that. This is why the soldiers of the IJ are as much of victims as everyone else is; their loyalties were manipulated by the evilness of the few and turned them into killing machines. As sad and as angry I would be in seeing my own people being systematically destroyed like this, the only things that can keep us rational and sane is by forgiveness and to understand that the punch landed on us also hurt the person who possessed the fist. He was not right to do what he had done, but the person directing them to inflict hate was the true evil of all.

Truly learning to forgive, but not to forget, and to bless your rivals with compassion to hope them become good is the only way you give yourself a chance and to others, all together, to go out and escape beyond the evilness and horrors that event was trying to wrap us in. You give them a chance to be human again. That speaks greater noble in your part.

And not to mention the people today should not be held for the sins of their fathers. Instead the only thing we can do is work even harder to remove bad bloods, mend and bond, and seek any remaining sources of virus that continues to damage us to this day.

solarz said:

The Chinese people should forgive, but never forget, the atrocities that took place during the Japanese invasion. The Nanjing massacre may be the most infamous tragedy, but it is dwarfed by other, less well known tragedies that happened all over China during this time.

Click to expand...

I can not forgive or forget but I can move on.

I think that might be easier to accompish for many that have relatives that survived the occupation there is a connection to that period that can be hard to break. The killing of people can sort of get passed but rape is a crime that can not be forgiven or forgotten so easily.