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Helius

Senior Member
Registered Member
These are theoretical numbers unless there is proof of training for such missions like pilots sitting in helicopter cockpit for 12 to 15 hours. helicopters have full protection suites for such missions and above reliability of dealing with Africa and Middleast. American choppers both military and civilian versions are all over there.
Your point is well understood. Your original posting was about the utility of long-range helicopters for purposes of evacuation over long distance. If I understood you correctly you were implying China could benefit from such utility.

So again, like I'd already pointed out, if China were to pursue said utility, China has the means to do just that in the hardware department.

You talk training and general competency in executing missions such as the one just demonstrated by the US, that's fair. Does the PLA currently have the expertise? Maybe they do, maybe not, but that wasn't what my response to you was about anyway.

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雪域高原,巨大的轰鸣声响彻云霄,十余架运输型直升机紧贴山谷隐蔽飞行,接近“敌”目标后突然跃升,特战队员从机舱鱼贯而出,朵朵伞花从天而降......日前,新疆军区某陆航旅十余架直升机长途机动千余公里,飞赴海拔4500多米的雪域高原与兄弟单位联演联训,在贴近实战中锤炼部队高原作战能力,实现高原地区飞行大队整建制出动、超低空高密度伞降和大机群战术飞行等3项战法训法新突破。

平均海拔4500米的雪域高原,群峰耸立,雪山连绵,因地形环境复杂和气候条件恶劣被称为旋翼式飞机的“飞行禁区”。近年来,该旅着眼战斗力生成模式转变,紧盯陆航部队精确作战、远程作战和联合作战需求,按照整建制参训、高海拔驻扎、全要素训练、实战化演习、全能力检验、大数据采集的要求,创新训练模式,研究打赢战法,先后攻克了高原地区直升机稳定性能下降、起降困难等20多个训练难题,探索出适合高原地区的战法训法10余种、填补我军直升机高原飞行训练和保障方面的10多项空白,部队能打仗、打胜仗能力得到进一步提升。

Machine translation -
On the snow-covered plateau, a huge roar resounded through the sky. More than a dozen transport helicopters flew covertly close to the valley, and suddenly jumped up after approaching the "enemy" target. A few days ago, more than ten helicopters of an army aviation brigade in the Xinjiang Military Region maneuvered for more than a thousand kilometers, and flew to the snow-covered plateau at an altitude of more than 4,500 meters to conduct joint exercises and training with brother units. New breakthroughs have been made in three tactics and training methods, such as dispatch by the whole system, ultra-low-altitude high-density parachute, and large-scale tactical flight.

The snow-covered plateau with an average altitude of 4,500 meters, towering peaks and continuous snow-capped mountains, is known as the "flying restricted area" for rotorcraft due to its complex terrain and harsh climate conditions. In recent years, the brigade has focused on the transformation of the combat power generation mode, focusing on the precision combat, long-range combat and joint combat requirements of the Army Aviation Force, participating in training according to the whole system, stationing at high altitudes, training with all elements, actual combat exercises, full-capacity testing, and big data training. Collecting requirements, innovating training modes, researching winning tactics, successively overcame more than 20 training problems such as the decline in stability of helicopters in plateau areas, and difficulty in taking off and landing, and explored more than 10 kinds of tactics and training methods suitable for plateau areas. There are more than 10 gaps in military helicopter plateau flight training and support, and the troops' ability to fight and win battles has been further improved.
 

pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
So again, like I'd already pointed out, if China were to pursue said utility, China has the means to do just that in the hardware department.
1000km is not 2600km. thats quite difference. and we certainly not know how many people inside each to know the load factor as it will dictate performance and hence time spent in cockpit.
 

Helius

Senior Member
Registered Member
1000km is not 2600km. thats quite difference. and we certainly not know how many people inside each to know the load factor as it will dictate performance and hence time spent in cockpit.
1000km one way i.e. 2000km both ways vs 2600km both ways in the Chinooks' case, just to make that clear. But it kinda feels like we're going in pedantic circles now...

[snip]
Still, even the Super Frelon which the Z-8 is based on has a longer combat radius than the Chinook which is actually waaay less than 1600 miles -

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Range: 1,020 km (630 mi, 550 nmi)
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Range: 400 nmi (460 mi, 740 km)

To get to 1600 miles I assume they were utilising internally-mounted fuel tanks to achieve that range. Were a Z-8 to have a similar config it's safe to assume it'd be just as able to achieve a similar ferry range if not longer.
[snip]

So again, like I'd already pointed out, if China were to pursue said utility, China has the means to do just that in the hardware department.

You talk training and general competency in executing missions such as the one just demonstrated by the US, that's fair. Does the PLA currently have the expertise? Maybe they do, maybe not, but that wasn't what my response to you was about anyway.

[snip]
 

pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
1000km one way i.e. 2000km both ways vs 2600km both ways in the Chinooks' case, just to make that clear. But it kinda feels like we're going in pedantic circles now...
1000km one way but its not clear that they came same day for the exact same distance. Chinook did this as part of one continuous operation. There is not comparable data of load factor and aircon use. Middleast simply too hot.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
This columnist translated Yellens speech the other day as "china must follow the party line/be vassal (us) or be penalized". Intresting read.

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Why are they begging for phone calls then? If what Yellen said is true shouldn’t it be Xi who is desperate for Biden to pick up the phone?

Also, during the Clinton years when the US is undeniably numero uno at almost every important metric, they never had to come out and say that culture of democracy and freedom means that American economy is built on solid foundation blah blah. Reality shows it so no one needs to waste their breath.
 
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