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Randomuser

Randomuser

Captain
Registered Member
Mt1701d said:
I think it’s a little short slighted to dismiss it out of hand, one thing I have noticed is that the Indian problem in companies tends to have a critical mass issue. As long as the numbers are kept in check and only accept the best of the best, it should be manageable, and I think this is the reason Japan thinks it a good idea to have a wider cooperation with India regarding labour.

They have a small population of Indians right now that kind of worked out and have a certain level of assimilation and thinks that it will be fine with a wider induction without really understanding the sh*t they are getting themselves into.

It’s a microcosm of the whole immigration discussion. If a large number are accepted at any one time, it becomes an issue due to grouping and non-assimilation. Let’s face it, assimilation is one of things China is best at, with a proven historical record at that. Thus, I think it’s possible but needs to be managed and scrutinised to death.
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Singapore has one of the hardest and strictest immigration programs there. They aim to keep Singapore 70% Chinese at least.

Yet even SG is getting overran. CECA and other deals have flooded SG with Indians to a point its own graduates can't find work.

In my previous post I mentioned DBS which as you know had an Indian CEO not even Singaporean but from India itself. Maybe he started ok but as time went on DBS was only good for stock price but bad if you were a customer with all the outages. I heard he put a lot of his own people in DBS too. It's only through force from guys like the government he stepped down from his position. And of coz the new person from SG has to fix the mess.

If SG which is very aware of how to play the world from multiple angles cant do it, how can Japan do it? People may not know this but Japan being an isolated island is very ignorant of the world coz for most part, it never had to deal with it in person. The ignorance they have will shock a lot of people.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Randomuser said:
Even though Intel doesn't have an Indian CEO, it actually has loads of Indians in positions of power. For example there are two svps and both are in the tech part which is probably the most important.


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Some Korean American was already suing Intel all the way back in 2019 for having huge Indian bias and discriminating against him.

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So even companies that don't have Indian CEOs have been Indianized so much. And that was years ago compared to now. Imagine the state of Microsoft or Google now. I don't even use Google image search (now called lens) and have to rely on Yandex.

It's actually amazing how deep this rabbit hole goes just on basic searching. I feel like it might be too late for the US to reverse this without some massive disruption.
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Plenty more examples with near 0 Indians. In the US its not just tech that doesn't work. Ford, GM, steel companies, even Boeing hardware (separate from software, which is Indian). Basic government functions like road repair, police and even military are barely functional.

There aren't many Indians doing plumbing, digging ditches or working on assembly lines. Boeing hardware is on site All American white and black unionized labor.

Indians don't cause Boeing doors to fall off mid flight. That's not a design error, that's manual laborers and on site QC. Indians didn't cause Fat Leonard, USS John McCain collision or carrier sailors sleeping in their cars.

Expelling Indians isn't going to fix their problems and they're going to move in on Chinese next when it fails.
 
M

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
FriedRiceNSpice said:
As long as focus is on quality. As I have expressed on another thread, small numbers of researchers/scientists that are near the top of their fields are fine. Origin and nationality should not even be a consideration for this type of talent. What China does not need is Indian IT workers, rank and file Indian engineers, and especially not Indian managerial staff (which covers 95% Indian H1b holders working in the US)
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I think we agree on this point, I am saying that not considering it at all or dismissing it completely would be short-sighted as there are bound to be some useful talents in that vast pool.

Randomuser said:
Singapore has one of the hardest and strictest immigration programs there. They aim to keep Singapore 70% Chinese at least.

Yet even SG is getting overran. CECA and other deals have flooded SG with Indians to a point its own graduates can't find work.

In my previous post I mentioned DBS which as you know had an Indian CEO not even Singaporean but from India itself. Maybe he started ok but as time went on DBS was only good for stock price but bad if you were a customer with all the outages. I heard he put a lot of his own people in DBS too. It's only through force from guys like the government he stepped down from his position. And of coz the new person from SG has to fix the mess.

If SG which is very aware of how to play the world from multiple angles cant do it, how can Japan do it. People may not know this but Japan being an isolated island is very ignorant of the world coz for most part, it never had to deal with it in person.
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I know what you mean, my brother works in SG and he has that same experience. I understand the issue and all I am saying is that introducing talents into specific areas and making sure no hiring are solely based on their decisions could work, hence my comment of ‘managing and scrutinising to death’

Also you have to consider that despite SG being very aware and having the ability to play from multiple angles, companies in SG still operate completely differently from ones in China, where I would bet the decision making would never be left to the Indians regardless of ability.

As for Japan, I think there are a multitude of factors beyond naïveté that they ended up with such a terrible decision.
 
supercat

supercat

Colonel
neutralobserver said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1969956985526169657
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China is so competitive in the fields of renewable energy, after visiting China, these venture capitalists don't think it's feasible for western companies to invest in some of these sectors anymore.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1970079401724264771
Here is the report from Bloomberg the above tweets based on:

China Road Trip Exposes List of Uninvestable Assets in the West​

  • Venture capitalists from Western firms have visited China and seen firsthand the country's dominance in clean tech sectors such as batteries and energy.
  • The VCs say China's advances have made it difficult for Western startups to compete, and some have decided to halt investments in certain sectors or look for ways to collaborate with Chinese firms.
  • China's dominance in clean tech is attributed to its prioritization of energy security, willingness to let companies fail, and ability to rapidly onshore entire supply chains, making it challenging for Western companies to catch up.
Venture capitalists in clean tech are starting to say out loud what they’ve suspected for a while: China’s dominance has left key sectors in the West uninvestable.
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While we are at it, here is some of the reasons for China's success in many industries:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1970138803689168998
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1970077625818230933

Chinese people remember their historical lessons and learn from those. That makes some folks very uncomfortable.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1969488571720745244

Nick who? As though he still has any relevance.
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OslXMbs.jpg
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
FriedRiceNSpice said:
If you know, you know!

When an Indian applicant meets an Indian interviewer, he will either get 1LC easy or 3LC hards for a 60 minute round!


Intel is a textbook example of what happens when middle management gets overrun by Indians.


Indian middle management is one of the two primary reasons for the shitification of US tech. To be fair, I feel they are often scapecoated to cover up the other primary factor: shareholder capitalism. Private equity has taken over ownership over most of all the large publicly traded tech companies, resulting in leadership focusing more on short term share price gains rather than strategic vision. Hence the constant cycles of hiring then layoffs seen since 2023 (as both announcing layoffs for "efficiency," and then hiring a few months later for "growth," boosts share prices).
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This is why the PRC should prepare contingency for capturing New Zealand bunkers — can’t let those greedy a-holes get away with it when all is said and done!
 
mossen

mossen

Senior Member
Registered Member
Mt1701d said:
I am saying that not considering it at all or dismissing it completely would be short-sighted as there are bound to be some useful talents in that vast pool.
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Since I am posting charts, might as well post this one.

1.png

Some of you guys may recognise it. It's from MacroPolo's AI talent tracker. The left side is bachelor, middle is master's and right side is PhD. The left side is the most important, because it tells you the baseline talent pool. India produces a modest amount of the elite AI talent in the world.

But remember: India is hugely oriented towards software engineering. So this is their home strength. Many engineers in Europe go into the automotive or aviation industry. For China, it's even broader than that.

So even for India's strongest competitive area, their contribution is very modest given their garguantuan population size. There is simply no "vast talent pool" in India. Most H1B workers are not the elite and most don't work in AI. They are working middle-class jobs for lower wages.

The biggest "advantage" for companies is that H1B workers are essentially indentured servants. If they lose their jobs, they get sent home packing. So they will accept worse pay and worse work conditions. Something native-born Americans won't. For a hiring company, they are ideal. That's the main function of H1B. China already has problems with 996 culture and involution. Lack of talent isn't China's problem but work-life balance for its best workers. H1B-type immigration would not fix that. Only make it worse.
 
Randomuser

Randomuser

Captain
Registered Member
mossen said:
Since I am posting charts, might as well post this one.

View attachment 161304

Some of you guys may recognise it. It's from MacroPolo's AI talent tracker. The left side is bachelor, middle is master's and right side is PhD. The left side is the most important, because it tells you the baseline talent pool. India produces a modest amount of the elite AI talent in the world.

But remember: India is hugely oriented towards software engineering. So this is their home strength. Many engineers in Europe go into the automotive or aviation industry. For China, it's even broader than that.

So even for India's strongest competitive area, their contribution is very modest given their garguantuan population size. There is simply no "vast talent pool" in India. Most H1B workers are not the elite and most don't work in AI. They are working middle-class jobs for lower wages.

The biggest "advantage" for companies is that H1B workers are essentially indentured servants. If they lose their jobs, they get sent home packing. So they will accept worse pay and worse work conditions. Something native-born Americans won't. For a hiring company, they are ideal. That's the main function of H1B. China already has problems with 996 culture and involution. Lack of talent isn't China's problem but work-life balance for its best workers. H1B-type immigration would not fix that. Only make it worse.
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I have mentioned this before but I still find it funny how India boasts about its STEM talent when most of it is really just around computer science and software engineering.

And while it is technically the most popular and probably highest earning sector of stem, it's really bad for the development of a country if everything is focused on that those few areas. China is able to do what it can do because it has engineers in many different fields. It all comes together.I can't even recall a senior official being a CS grad. You have stuff like civil, chemical engineering etc.
 
Sardaukar20

Sardaukar20

Major
Registered Member
supercat said:
Chinese people remember their historical lessons and learn from those. That makes some folks very uncomfortable.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1969488571720745244
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Those Japanese who accuse the Chinese "communists" for spreading "anti-Japanese" propaganda are obviously living in denial. Japanese WWII atrocities is not an invention of the CCP, its in everybody's grandfather WWII stories in Asia and the West. Everyone cannot be wrong at the same time.

Unlike the Germans, who have managed to separate themselves from their Nazi era (at least they tried), the Japanese have refused to do the same. Instead of genuinely repenting, the Japanese nationalists the have turned to historical revisionism, which inevitably invites condemnation.
 
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