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pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
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It's not new. KSA has taken such measures in the past. Their key concern citizens end up revolting against the state itself. Want to nip it in the bud should anti-Israel protests evolve into anti-Saudi.

His vision is creating a New Europe in Mideast. which can only happen if US is leading power. ( there is other ways but they are longer). i would think he gets intelligence on many things from US that may have contributed to his success in reforming Saudi society. so it is not just Boeing Aircraft or Choppers that they to have confidence.
I would call alliance of Hindu India, Israel and Gulf Arabs an alliance of Wealth where they control upper management of every large multinational firm and off course protection from bankrupt countries.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The Russian MOD budget is around 120bn USD give or take, about the same as the Bundeswehr's. The Russian MODs production capacity surpasses that of the West and their puppets in the east combined as is being demonstrated, because the Russian MIC is configured to defend Russia's interests, not to make profit for the elites and not to appease stock holders. They have many factories that just sit there on stand by for when needed, courtesy of the USSR.
Russia gets a lot more bang for the buck with their equipment. The Ruble is undervalued versus the Dollar or the Euro. In Russia salaries are lower. Energy prices are lower, and a lot of the raw materials have lower price as well, because they are locally produced. Like you said most of the military industries are owned by the state and this also means profits are not as much of a concern as with the private military industry in the West.

A Su-35 costs 2 billion RUB ($22 million USD at the current exchange rate). And an F-15EX costs $138 million USD.

Even the Su-57 costs 2.236 billion RUB. Which is a mere $24.4 million USD at the current exchange rate.

This price difference does not just apply to fighters. You see the same thing with nuclear submarines, frigates, corvettes, and other weapon systems. Advanced Russian weapon systems cost like a fifth the price to produce.

I would not be surprised if for "dumb" weapons with less imported materials the price difference was even higher.
 
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doggydogdo

Junior Member
Registered Member
Russia gets a lot more bang for the buck with their equipment. The Ruble is undervalued versus the Dollar or the Euro. In Russia salaries are lower. Energy prices are lower, and a lot of the raw materials have lower price as well, because they are locally produced. Like you said most of the military industries are owned by the state and this also means profits are not as much of a concern as with the private military industry in the West.

A Su-35 costs 2 billion RUB ($22 million USD at the current exchange rate). And an F-15EX costs $138 million USD.

Even the Su-57 costs 2.236 billion RUB. Which is a mere $24.4 million USD at the current exchange rate.

This price difference does not just apply to fighters. You see the same thing with nuclear submarines, frigates, corvettes, and other weapon systems. Advanced Russian weapon systems cost like a fifth the price to produce.
24 million for a 5th gen seems unlike. Su-57 is probably 4+ gen
 

supersnoop

Colonel
Registered Member
Easy to see why. When both sides of the aisle push the most anti-Chinese propaganda possible, both sides become hateful towards the PRC. A lot of fellow Americans I see around me seem to have lost the ability to think rationally on this issue specifically. Some of the most anti-war Americans I have met still believe everything the US government says on China. It's amazing and a bit worrying to see. Great share though.
Rationality is dead

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China is the enemy - why?
  • A large majority of Americans (82%) think China has at least a fair amount of influence on US economic conditions. Among those, most think the influence is negative
China steals American jobs? - American corporations cut labor costs to increase profits
Chinese overproduction? We want to go back to paying $5000 for a PC?
China steals intellectual property - 1 word - Lawyers. Chinese companies know that they need independent IP to maximize success/profits in the West, not just some knockoff Amazon seller with a bunch of random letters as a company name that can be sued out of existence at any point.

  • 61% of Americans say they are at least somewhat concerned about territorial disputes between China and its neighboring countries, including 20% who say they are very concerned
  • Many Americans agree that China’s influence in the world has been getting stronger in recent years (71%). In 2022, that number was 66%
The USA is basically provoking China into a Cuban Missile crisis everyday with their offensive weapons stationed all around China, but blames China for aggression. How is this rational?

Chinese influence campaigns? Who cares? America doesn't run influence campaigns? This shouldn't be an issue at all.
 

jiajia99

Senior Member
Registered Member
History isn’t going to smile very well on the ruling elite of Saudi Arabia, that is for sure. Most of the elite in the Arab world have been bought by the west anyways. It’s the people that the west hasn’t won over and that will be the key to the future when the people eventually start to turn against these puppet rulers sooner or later. Besides, most of these elite have property and holdings in the USA which I really doubt is safe in the future when the economy of the USA starts to crumble as we can already see with Russian and even Chinese assets that the USA is obviously planning to steal sooner or later
 
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pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
24 million for a 5th gen seems unlike. Su-57 is probably 4+ gen
I would not spend time on Russian statistics unless there is some reliable confirmation.
This hidden stealth, Superior Stealth described by SkynewsArabia is as close you can get to reality. when there were older generation of Arabs in control things in there media would be less precise for things they want to present. thats the reason Putin met with sons of Sultans and Emirs as he gets perspective from younger minds. This Royal system is model of governance and families.

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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Then why is it far cheaper than Chinese J-20s despite China holding an edge over Russia in every single way?
Russian manufacturers has depreciated R&D assets that were paid off during the Cold War era for things every plane needs like controls, life support, landing gears, engines, etc.

J-20 unit costs include not only the marginal cost of the airframe but the amortized cost of R&D for everything including the specialized WS-10C and WS-15 engines.

You can also see with your eyes that the J-20 has tighter machining tolerances with composite while the Su-57 has sloppier tolerances with metal. This will squeeze the last little bit of performance out but is vastly more expensive, not only for tools but if you have a bad piece of composite it can't be reworked like metal, it's junk. So you have to be able to tolerate junking alot of almost good parts.

The last little bit of performance is actually the most important once you are already very good. Going from 95% good to 99% good is just 4% improvement but the probability of failure declined by 5x.
 
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