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BoraTas

Captain
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And India wants to compete with China's BRI projects?


It can be explained in two words: corruption and incompetence.

Laughing about Tofu-dreg construction? How about Bihar construction?
Self-awareness was never a trait of Indian nationalists. It is sometimes awes you that how far off from the reality they can be. For a few times I saw Indians mocking the Chinese for immigrating to the West in masses. It is an incredibly bizarre thing for an Indian to talk about because they are by far the biggest source of immigration, both illegal and legal. I think they just love throwing insults at the others and they don't care if they are being truthful either.
 

Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
We are not talking about an invading army using nukes in Taiwan, in which case would trigger MAD or at least a strategic "escalate to deescalate" strike on a US core city/military base.

China detonated a lot of tactical and strategic nukes in Lop Nur and other places. A nuke does not care if it's dropped on a testing range in Xinjiang or a stronghold in Hualien. The amount of poisoning to the whole Chinese nation is equally negligible in both cases. Legally there is no difference either.


Given that Taiwan is a battleground that US have spent a lot of time infiltrating, China should be realistic that certain contamination can happen within Taiwan province only. We would ideally not allow any part of the country to be hit by toxic munitions, but similar to the Donbass or Crimea debacle faced by Ukraine, we must acknowledge the realistic facts on the ground, that repulsing the occupier is more important than containing NBC effects.

On the other hand if ground on the mainland is attacked by toxic weapons, China's most logical reply would be to go after cities in the country that provided the base with DU cluster munitions, white phosphorus and the like, this would be an incredibly strong deterrent against spreading the war to the mainland.

We both have enough weapons to take eachother out several times over. But China does not have true escalation dominance which would entail being able to survive an all out nuclear attack while destroying them. The key to achieving this would be increased missile defense technology and more anti nuclear shelters/bases.

While China has the resources to pursue the path of nuclear escalation dominance, I don't expect it to pay off in the immediate future.

What would be irresponsible is to disregard planning for extreme options in the face of operational failures. This is the way of the US military, which just changes the parameters of exercises when the result does not suit them, so that their primary purposes becomes political performance to assuage the public that they have an "ever victorious army".

Again, nuking Lop Nur did not spread any fallout to cities such as Chongqing which are equidistant from Lop Nur as some areas in Taiwan are to major coastal cities. The talk about fallout is fear mongering by anti nuclear activists.

It is far from an ideal scenario to have to employ nukes in Taiwan defense plans, but it should be acknowledged as a necessary and legally possible fallback option.

Consider the following scenario. PLA intercept the plan of KMT forces to gather up hundreds of supersonic missiles and 1000s of shahed type drones. The probable target is a dam in Fujian, which if destroyed will force the relocation of several hundred thousand. The air force is put to work on destroying the launchers, but they prove evasive. Although China has preevacuated the most risky areas and air defenses worked relentlessly to bring down many 1000s of targets, although <1% of the projectiles slip through, some fall on populated areas, and some inflict damage on the dam, which causes now several thousand properties to be flooded.

Meanwhile, Americans are mobilising a massive invasion force, whose targets are as of now still unknown to China, but it's believed that they can absolutely overrun parts of Taiwan or maybe Chinese holdings in the SCS.

What will be the logical response here? A nuke over Hualien would reply the losses of 100s civilians on mainland with high 1000s of KMT fighter losses, invaluable destroyed enemy hardware including fighter jets, and possibly collateral punishment on 1000s of civilian occupiers complicit to the deadly dam attack.

Furthermore, such a move may have the bonus of instantly cauterizing the wound in Taiwan by means of overwhelming fear among the anti government fighters, allowing PLA to focus 100% on the US forces.

It is an option that should absolutely remain on the table.

Let's agree to disagree. China nuking its own land is never a viable option for me. And I'm absolutely sure that the PLA military strategists do not consider it. There are many other ways to flatten Taiwan without resorting to nukes. Nuclear fallout is never negligible. It is not scare mongering, it is facts. There are many scientific research papers written about it. It poisons the land for several decades, resulting in birth defects and cancers. Some radionuclides can even last for hundreds of years. Chinas nukes should only be reserved for its foreign enemies.

As for about how the PLA could deal with those Taiwanese traitors who might plan to massacre mainlanders. It's more suitable to discuss them over in the Taiwan Contingency Thread.
As far as i'm concerned, Chinese ancestral land of HuaXia, much like the Chinese genome, is sacred; radiation from nuclear weapons and dirty bombs will damage both for generations to come and the anglo led West has often fantasized about jack london style genocide of the Chinese people. Early conspiracy theories of COVID-19 being a bioweapon targeting east asian genomes certainly seemed plausible at the time under a Pompeo and Pottinger led USG.

Unlike zionists who have to make up a fictional glorious past heavy on religious indoctrination, China is objectively the only living cultural civilisation since the days of Sumer and ancient egypt. You can observe how much anglos and western supremacists envy this with their cope over 'hyperborea' and supposed aryan supermen. More amusingly, you can also see this amongst indian nationalists who needed to be told about their own history from british archaeologists.

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Black Myth Wukong comes out tomorrow; and just like the olympics, and any white wester dominated authority, they're going to be extra critical of anything coming out of China because fuck soft power, right? the western chauvinist is incredibly insecure because he knows that his basis of supposed superiority is flimsy, weak and fake.
 

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
As far as i'm concerned, Chinese ancestral land of HuaXia, much like the Chinese genome, is sacred; radiation from nuclear weapons and dirty bombs will damage both for generations to come
But the military has studied this exact phenomenon and found it harmless enough to repeat it dozens of times in Lop Nur. What is harmless to the environment in Xinjiang is also harmless to the environment in Taiwan, as long as China doesn't overdo it.

If using singular warheads were so damaging to Chinese ancestral lands, China would have trialed her nukes elsewhere, like the SCS or ECS.
and the anglo led West has often fantasized about jack london style genocide of the Chinese people. Early conspiracy theories of COVID-19 being a bioweapon targeting east asian genomes certainly seemed plausible at the time under a Pompeo and Pottinger led USG.

Unlike zionists who have to make up a fictional glorious past heavy on religious indoctrination, China is objectively the only living cultural civilisation since the days of Sumer and ancient egypt. You can observe how much anglos and western supremacists envy this with their cope over 'hyperborea' and supposed aryan supermen. More amusingly, you can also see this amongst indian nationalists who needed to be told about their own history from british archaeologists.
My point here isn't to jump to nuking US invaders on Chinese soil, but that if the war develops such that nukes are needed to lighten the burden of the PLA and allow better homeland defense, there is already no legal barrier and should also be seen as an option with low threshold.

It seems that by estimations, China can comfortably inflict a scorched earth tactic in Taiwan even stronger than a single nuke, using only conventional weapons. But estimations are only estimations. NATO was estimated to crush Russia's Germany sized economy into irrelevance. They were estimated to produce 10s of times more modern weapons than Russia. Fallback options are for when things go contrary to your estimations.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
But the military has studied this exact phenomenon and found it harmless enough to repeat it dozens of times in Lop Nur. What is harmless to the environment in Xinjiang is also harmless to the environment in Taiwan, as long as China doesn't overdo it.

If using singular warheads were so damaging to Chinese ancestral lands, China would have trialed her nukes elsewhere, like the SCS or ECS.

My point here isn't to jump to nuking US invaders on Chinese soil, but that if the war develops such that nukes are needed to lighten the burden of the PLA and allow better homeland defense, there is already no legal barrier and should also be seen as an option with low threshold.

It seems that by estimations, China can comfortably inflict a scorched earth tactic in Taiwan even stronger than a single nuke, using only conventional weapons. But estimations are only estimations. NATO was estimated to crush Russia's Germany sized economy into irrelevance. They were estimated to produce 10s of times more modern weapons than Russia. Fallback options are for when things go contrary to your estimations.

The whole reason China has held off was to removed any possibility of needing to rely on nukes to win. With or without direct American military involvement.

China’s nuclear expansion is to counter the prospect of American nuclear blackmail and brinkmanship when the Americans loose the conventional war.

There is no remotely realistic scenario where China would need to consider using nukes first. The self hating white-wannabes in Taiwan can wet dream about killing millions of Chinese civilians by blowing up damns, but they haven’t got remotely close to even a tiny fraction of the capacity to achieve that goal. Even the US will be extremely hard pressed to manage it with anything other than nuclear weapons.
 

resistance

Junior Member
Registered Member
The whole reason China has held off was to removed any possibility of needing to rely on nukes to win. With or without direct American military involvement.

China’s nuclear expansion is to counter the prospect of American nuclear blackmail and brinkmanship when the Americans loose the conventional war.

There is no remotely realistic scenario where China would need to consider using nukes first. The self hating white-wannabes in Taiwan can wet dream about killing millions of Chinese civilians by blowing up damns, but they haven’t got remotely close to even a tiny fraction of the capacity to achieve that goal. Even the US will be extremely hard pressed to manage it with anything other than nuclear weapons.
What china should do is mastered their semiconductor and dump the market before Taiwan cloud get a resource for mastering new technology. Then, massively implemented both primary and secondary sanctions for anyone who trade with the island. Crisis will emerge worse than Cuba.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Didn't this discussion of nukes on Chinese soil come about from tanks using DU on Chinese soil? First of all getting enough Western tanks on Chinese soil will probably be harder than one thinks. They will probably be destroyed before they even land on Chinese soil. That's why the US Naval War college in their war game simulations of a US naval attack on China for the last few decades have never won a single one because they'll get destroyed from swarms of anti-ship missiles. Beside if China is willing to use nukes on Chinese soil, why not just nuke their ships out at sea carrying their tanks before they reach shore?
 

Randomuser

Senior Member
Registered Member
I realized Taiwan has not really been in the news for months now. This is despite William Lai making all these promises on Taiwan's Identity.

I thought he would be more hardcore than Tsai when it comes to this but maybe in the end he's just another grifter who couldn't give a crap once he gets power. It doesn't help he's a man so people will be less sympathetic to this underdog image compared to Tsai.

Or maybe people in Taiwan have much bigger issues to worry about than some war that may never come in the short term since they deep down don't want to die for it. China fear mongering doesn't actually solve no good jobs, low pay, high stress etc.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
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Black Myth Wukong comes out tomorrow; and just like the olympics, and any white wester dominated authority, they're going to be extra critical of anything coming out of China because fuck soft power, right? the western chauvinist is incredibly insecure because he knows that his basis of supposed superiority is flimsy, weak and fake.
Like the predictable minions they are. They've started firing their first salvo:

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Yeah, it's the repeat of the same BS propaganda by Sweet Baby Inc. "OMG Chinese games are sexists! OMG Chinese games lacked diversity! OMG we can't criticize the CCP when discussing the game! OMG we can't talk about Covid and the game!" LoL!

Yeah thanks so much for all that free marketing! The woke haters are gonna love this game even more. Now go away and jerk off somewhere.

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A Middle Aged Korean American dude played a 30 hour game for only 4 hours and calls it's "bland". He says he plays Elden Ring, which I find hard to believe. Yeah of course Wukong it's bland for you. Mario Karts might be more suitable for you.
 
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Michaelsinodef

Senior Member
Registered Member
I realized Taiwan has not really been in the news for months now. This is despite William Lai making all these promises on Taiwan's Identity.

I thought he would be more hardcore than Tsai when it comes to this but maybe in the end he's just another grifter who couldn't give a crap once he gets power. It doesn't help he's a man so people will be less sympathetic to this underdog image compared to Tsai.

Or maybe people in Taiwan have much bigger issues to worry about than some war that may never come in the short term since they deep down don't want to die for it. China fear mongering doesn't actually solve no good jobs, low pay, high stress etc.
From the podcasters I listen to.

He basically is a grifter, that is basically only concerned with getting money.

In that process, he has been 'attacking' Tsai's people/faction lol (gotta remove them, so it becomes easier to grift).
 
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