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If the same incident were to happen today. I am confident that Lai Ching Te will be totally spineless. He'll probably ask the US first for instructions. Then the US would come in and get the ROC and PH to shake hands and laugh it away. Lai might even apologize to the PH for "trespassing", thereby recognising the PH's side of the dispute. Then we shall see how the Taiwanese public reacts. Are they gonna be as outraged as they were 11 years ago? Or have things really changed over the years under DPP nonsense and tyranny?
Pretty sure they would just band together and make a joint statement that it is somehow China's fault.

"He heard from other Chinese migrants who arrived in the US earlier that NYC had a better public transit system and was more convenient for someone without a car."

'nuff said.
That statement is actually true. Relative to most American cities, NYC at least has a functional, convenient, and affordable mass transit system. It is perhaps the only US city where mass transit is more convenient than private vehicles. NYC's mass transit system is objectively pretty good, it's essentially an older, dirtier, smellier, more run-down, yet equally functional version of the mass transit systems in Tier 2/3 Chinese cities.

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It shouldn't be cause for concern that America may be a better place to live for certain specific segments of the Chinese population. China shouldn't lose sleep over an uneducated, homosexual factory worker fleeing to America.
 

_killuminati_

Senior Member
Registered Member
The sorry state of Islamic countries is a perfectly natural outcome of their religious beliefs.
What was the 9th - 12th century state of Islamic countries the outcome of?
I think this hadith sums up what you need to know well enough:

This strike you as a STEM-developing mentality?
Don't attempt to form conclusions on a topic you have little understanding of. Bi'dah (which is translated as 'innovation', because it doesn't have an equivalent in English) in Islamic scripture always refers to "innovation" within fiqh (jurisprudence) and usool (tenets), i.e. altering the months of Ramadan are innovation, changing the 5 daily mandatory prayers to 3 is innovation. It has nothing to do with technological and secular development. Otherwise, the huge contributions to STEM by early Muslim academics would be puzzling to comprehend with your lense, considering the fact that most of these contributors were also scholars of [the Islamic] religion.

You wanna talk about science then do the due diligence and approach the issue in a scientific manner. Start with the basics: to solidify your theory, you must disprove the null hypotheses and alternates. Here's a starter:

A 10th century theologian developing scientific encyclopedias?
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His most famous works are
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, a philosophical and scientific encyclopedia, and
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, a
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which became a standard medical text at many medieval
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and remained in use as late as 1650.
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Besides philosophy and medicine, Avicenna's corpus includes writings on
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,
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,
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,
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,
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,
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,
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,
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, and works of
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.
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A 9th century Muslim who... "innovated" in mathematics by being the first to systematically solve the linear and quadratic equations?
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Just the wikipedia page alone would've put your contention to rest.
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I'm no expert on Islam but here's what I see:

1. The number of Muslim kids who are high achievers in the US educational system is very low.
2. The number of Muslims who dedicate a large portion of their lives to religious activities is very high, maybe lower than in history, but still very high.
3. There are no technologically-advanced Muslim countries.
Do you have sources for #1 and #2?
#1 I can believe but #2 I have not seen anywhere in the world, not even in Islamic countries.

#3 is quite true temporally but not entirely accurate to form absolute conclusions on. For example, if you were to form an absolute conclusion based on current affairs, then you'd have to qualify that Islamic countries were never technologically advanced in any time period of the past.

So I can only conclude that they are just not invested enough into studying the STEM subjects. If Islam teaches them to do it and they didn't do it, then that's on them as well but I wouldn't say that they need to follow more into their religion because everything else is unimportant and can be discarded compared to the necessity of pursuing STEM education and power through science.
The current consensus among the most influential Islamic theologians of the modern period is that Islamic countries are neither interested in Islam nor in secular studies (in other words, bottom of the barrel in both affairs).
 

Virtup

Junior Member
Registered Member
What was the 9th - 12th century state of Islamic countries the outcome of?

Don't attempt to form conclusions on a topic you have little understanding of. Bi'dah (which is translated as 'innovation', because it doesn't have an equivalent in English) in Islamic scripture always refers to "innovation" within fiqh (jurisprudence) and usool (tenets), i.e. altering the months of Ramadan are innovation, changing the 5 daily mandatory prayers to 3 is innovation. It has nothing to do with technological and secular development. Otherwise, the huge contributions to STEM by early Muslim academics would be puzzling to comprehend with your lense, considering the fact that most of these contributors were also scholars of [the Islamic] religion.

You wanna talk about science then do the due diligence and approach the issue in a scientific manner. Start with the basics: to solidify your theory, you must disprove the null hypotheses and alternates. Here's a starter:

A 10th century theologian developing scientific encyclopedias?
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A 9th century Muslim who... "innovated" in mathematics by being the first to systematically solve the linear and quadratic equations?
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Just the wikipedia page alone would've put your contention to rest.
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Do you have sources for #1 and #2?
#1 I can believe but #2 I have not seen anywhere in the world, not even in Islamic countries.

#3 is quite true temporally but not entirely accurate to form absolute conclusions on. For example, if you were to form an absolute conclusion based on current affairs, then you'd have to qualify that Islamic countries were never technologically advanced in any time period of the past.


The current consensus among the most influential Islamic theologians of the modern period is that Islamic countries are neither interested in Islam nor in secular studies (in other words, bottom of the barrel in both affairs).
That's a far better, more logical and informative explanation than mine. Well done.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
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South Africa wouldn’t be so brazen if it didn’t have Russia and China and the BRICS behind it. Smart, going after the Anglo American leaders in front of the world for brazen human rights abuses will have the entire support of the world.

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happily, this include von der lying. Perhaps macron might be able to do his job without his granny fetishism getting out of hand.
What are they whining and bitchin' about...? All the US is going to do is claim they're not a part of the ICC so it can't be prosecuted. But as hypocrites as usual the US will support charges against countries they don't like.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
"He heard from other Chinese migrants who arrived in the US earlier that NYC had a better public transit system and was more convenient for someone without a car."

'nuff said.
hearing comes after watching. I can write stories about Arabic Soft Power and Wealth but you wont pay attention untill there is pics/video.

Xiong was attracted to the new life that the family started in Los Angeles. In one video, Xiong saw tall palm trees under the blue sky and white clouds. There were people leisurely sunbathing on the beach. In another video, he saw fighter jets crossing the sky at an airshow, as crowds of people watched them with admiration.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Do you have sources for #1 and #2?
No, just my personal experience. The top performers of mathematics, physics, chemistry classes are almost always Chinese and the top overall (including history, literature, biological sciences, filler classes, etc...) are Chinese or Jewish. Muslims don't blip on the radar though they are certainly not especially stupid or academically poor.
#1 I can believe but #2 I have not seen anywhere in the world, not even in Islamic countries.
Personally, I have seen weird shit. I had a Muslim coworker who always has praying time even when working in the lab. He would put experiments on hold to go pray when his phone alarm goes off. One time, this dude caused us to fail a mock lab inspection (one conducted by our own institution, not by the actual certifying organization) because he overshot his alarm and when he realized it, went straight onto the ground to pray and as this happened, our inspecting coworkers came in to see him knelt on the ground away from his work station with his bunsen burner lit and and ethanol jug exposed on the same table.

My mother had a Muslim dude in her lab who always asked her for help mathing out the master mix cus he just didn't do well with numbers; same with me and an Egyptian lady in our lab. (Though to be fair, that's most people in the US but never have we seen Chinese people with this deficiency.) For Chinese people, we would self-create (aside from the protocol) a grand master mix; it was a full page of calculations but once mixed right, made it so that for the next six months, an experiment that should take 90 minutes by protocol would take under 10 minutes each time. She could not do it; she took her 90 minutes a day. She would really appreciate it if one of us split some of our batch with her, but even when given our calculated formula page, she couldn't make it herself.

Of course, this is anecdotal and we have also seen Muslim lab workers who worked out great with no issues.

Another aspect is that I see so many images of Muslims making pilgrimages to pray en masse and how so many incredibly lavish and expensive mosques are built in the middle east. It makes me think that Muslims are crazy about their religion.
#3 is quite true temporally but not entirely accurate to form absolute conclusions on. For example, if you were to form an absolute conclusion based on current affairs, then you'd have to qualify that Islamic countries were never technologically advanced in any time period of the past.
Surely, when Muslims were winning wars against Christians, their technology could not have been bad, but technology got way more complicated. It's a completely different level of immersion between a man who makes swords or designs catapaults from one who is a rocket science engineer. For the former, you could do just fine on a few hours a day with a large portion still reserved for religion but due to the vast expanse of knowledge required, the latter needs to be extremely immersed in the science with almost no room left in his brain or his daily routine for hardcore religion in order to really make headway into his field. Also, slight deficiencies in blacksmith work or simple mechanistic designs translate to slight disadvantages, which can easily be made up by effort or numbers, but slight deficiencies in cutting edge tech easily snowball into complete obsolescence.
The current consensus among the most influential Islamic theologians of the modern period is that Islamic countries are neither interested in Islam
Are they saying this in absolute terms or in comparison to the past? In absolute terms, I just don't understand. Compared to before, I'm sure it's true as modern society and cultural influence is bound to drain upon strict religion everywhere.
nor in secular studies (in other words, bottom of the barrel in both affairs).
Well that's quite a hopeless situation, isn't it? No wonder Israeli prays on this weakness. Why are Muslims not interested in their STEM studies? Why do Muslim parents not push their children to do well in this area?
 
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