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Bellum_Romanum

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
kwaigonegin said:
Yeah, I would say China's intelligence services is extremely elementary if not downright useless. They were totally caught off guard with the simmering HK protests which we now know had been organized and brewing for months.
And HK is not even some far distant land.. it's literally part of China!
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What's your basis of this pretty strong statement that MSS is "extremely elementary if not downright useless" and do you have any evidence of their extreme incompetence. I mean, Hillary Clinton during her tenure as SOS wrote in her book with great annoyance hoe effective the electronic signal intelligence of China that she had to literally turn off anything and everything she had under the sun for fear that Chinese intelligence would gather relevant information without much effort. If that's a sign of China's intelligence being "elementary and downright useless" then American led intelligence and its vassals are even more incompetent and pathetic that despite China's shitty and useless intelligence the best they could do against their now avowed strategic enemy is to cause the Hong Kong riot, accused the country of genocide against "WEGERS" which are lame since it left China able to hold strategic chokehold on 15 out of 30 important strategic minerals, allow the country to become the defacto trade and manufacturing behemoth in the world; gained standing in research standing, leads in many critical technologies according to ASPI (another warmongering western pravda) I could go on.

I am surprised to read something so pedestrian and bereft of actual analysis from you since I thought you're one of the more astute and knowledgeable poster on this forum.
 
E

Eventine

Senior Member
Registered Member
Chevalier said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1680309831175995392

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1680280721288744971

That the anglos are intent on nuclear Armageddon just because China works harder and as a result, has more advanced technology leaving the anglos to feel inferior, highlights the spiritual weakness of the Anglo soul.

On a pedestrian level, you’ll see this behaviour from Caucasians in western society who purposefully exclude and block aspiring Chinese students and applicants so as to protect the caucasoid‘s mediocre offspring.
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It's all maneuvers on the grand chess board that is geopolitics. The public is sold a bunch of virtue signaling propaganda, but in the high halls of power where the game is actually played, all that matters is self-interest. The people who are actually in charge of the West enjoy their hegemonic status - the fact that they can make the whole world dance to their tune. They're not going to give it up without a fight.

The US tolerated China's rise because it thought it could control China, that it had a deal in which China would submit itself to US hegemony, like other Asian countries did. When that no longer seemed to be the case, the switch to aggression was quick and ruthless. The American public was just brought along for the ride, they are easily manipulated and effectively don't matter.

Think Game of Thrones - that's how Western elites act; "the climb is all there is."
 
kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Bellum_Romanum said:
What's your basis of this pretty strong statement that MSS is "extremely elementary if not downright useless" and do you have any evidence of their extreme incompetence. I mean, Hillary Clinton during her tenure as SOS wrote in her book with great annoyance hoe effective the electronic signal intelligence of China that she had to literally turn off anything and everything she had under the sun for fear that Chinese intelligence would gather relevant information without much effort. If that's a sign of China's intelligence being "elementary and downright useless" then American led intelligence and its vassals are even more incompetent and pathetic that despite China's shitty and useless intelligence the best they could do against their now avowed strategic enemy is to cause the Hong Kong riot, accused the country of genocide against "WEGERS" which are lame since it left China able to hold strategic chokehold on 15 out of 30 important strategic minerals, allow the country to become the defacto trade and manufacturing behemoth in the world; gained standing in research standing, leads in many critical technologies according to ASPI (another warmongering western pravda) I could go on.

I am surprised to read something so pedestrian and bereft of actual analysis from you since I thought you're one of the more astute and knowledgeable poster on
Click to expand...

Bellum_Romanum said:
What's your basis of this pretty strong statement that MSS is "extremely elementary if not downright useless" and do you have any evidence of their extreme incompetence. I mean, Hillary Clinton during her tenure as SOS wrote in her book with great annoyance hoe effective the electronic signal intelligence of China that she had to literally turn off anything and everything she had under the sun for fear that Chinese intelligence would gather relevant information without much effort. If that's a sign of China's intelligence being "elementary and downright useless" then American led intelligence and its vassals are even more incompetent and pathetic that despite China's shitty and useless intelligence the best they could do against their now avowed strategic enemy is to cause the Hong Kong riot, accused the country of genocide against "WEGERS" which are lame since it left China able to hold strategic chokehold on 15 out of 30 important strategic minerals, allow the country to become the defacto trade and manufacturing behemoth in the world; gained standing in research standing, leads in many critical technologies according to ASPI (another warmongering western pravda) I could go on.

I am surprised to read something so pedestrian and bereft of actual analysis from you since I thought you're one of the more astute and knowledgeable poster on this forum.
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There is information gathering and then there is analysis and action. In the world of SIGINT and HUMINT, usually it's the latter.
 
F

fatzergling

Junior Member
Registered Member
kwaigonegin said:
I'm saying the MSS or other agencies should've known and curtailed the sudden explosion of violence and riots etc. that we now know did not just materialized out of the ether; rather had foreign infuence and even involvement of foreign state actors.
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Like what? How? Mobilizing the PLA garrison to kill all the protestors? And it's not like China didn't handle it: the NSL and the legco shuffle caused the opposition to disband itself. Although it wasn't flashy, China did a surprisingly good job by suppressing the riots and it's source without causing too much disruption.
 
E

Eventine

Senior Member
Registered Member
From the NY times article linked above on the chip war:

“It’s easy for political leaders or executives to think if we throw enough money and engineers at this problem, we’ll solve it,” Jason Matheny, former deputy director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, says. But the immense complexity of the science and the globe-spanning supply chains are difficult to imitate. “At some point,” says Matheny, “you’re replicating all of human civilization.”
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I got to say, the level of arrogance and delusion here is absolutely insane. So what the guy is saying is that you need to "replicate all of human civilization" to match the West in chips technology? I mean, this isn't surprising considering the West consistently believes it's responsible for all human innovation in the last few thousand years, but it's still amazing to hear the hubris.

It will make their decline all the more satisfying. Pride always comes before the fall.
 
B

Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
kwaigonegin said:
I'm saying the MSS or other agencies should've known and curtailed the sudden explosion of violence and riots etc. that we now know did not just materialized out of the ether; rather had foreign infuence and even involvement of foreign state actors.
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How do they stop that when the legal system doesn't allow it?

The most they can do is to share intel so that rioters got thrown into arrest, which was done often. Yet without the reforms, that was a revolving door controlled by corrupt foreign judges, which could not be legally removed either.

If supposed intelligence incompetence was the reason, why did the legal reforms succeed? Because an incompetent MSS would still be equally incompetent even with the NSL in effect. They would be powerless to enforce it. Yet that obviously doesn't line up with reality.
 
P

pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
Eventine said:
From the NY times article linked above on the chip war:



I got to say, the level of arrogance and delusion here is absolutely insane. So what the guy is saying is that you need to "replicate all of human civilization" to match the West in chips technology? I mean, this isn't surprising considering the West consistently believes it's responsible for all human innovation in the last few thousand years, but it's still amazing to hear the hubris.

It will make their decline all the more satisfying. Pride always comes before the fall.
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you may look at it who graduated and who are the professors in Western Universities in past 100 years to get idea it has contributions from practically all the human civilization. Western Universities have consistently out perform in attracting global students.
 
H

H2O

Junior Member
Registered Member
Eventine said:
From the NY times article linked above on the chip war:

I got to say, the level of arrogance and delusion here is absolutely insane. So what the guy is saying is that you need to "replicate all of human civilization" to match the West in chips technology? I mean, this isn't surprising considering the West consistently believes it's responsible for all human innovation in the last few thousand years, but it's still amazing to hear the hubris.
Click to expand...

Not sure what article you're referring to. If it's one of those Twitter links then I'm unable to read it.

Going by just the excerpt you posted, I interpret Jason Matheny's comment differently (assuming you're referring to Jason). Jason is saying that these politicians and executives are clueless as their demands require "replicating all of human civilization." If you're referring to the people that Jason was speaking of then yes, hubris.
 
vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
H2O said:
Not sure what article you're referring to. If it's one of those Twitter links then I'm unable to read it.

Going by just the excerpt you posted, I interpret Jason Matheny's comment differently (assuming you're referring to Jason). Jason is saying that these politicians and executives are clueless as their demands require "replicating all of human civilization." If you're referring to the people that Jason was speaking of then yes, hubris.
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