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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Of all the major Western leaders, Macron is probably the most charismatic.
Even in this thread you can see that effect.

Anyway, I tend to not focus that much to individual leaders and instead prefer to see things from an overall point of view. Leaving Macron aside, France is a vassal territory of the American Empire. That Macron says a couple of good things and signs some business deals with China doesn't change that fact.
 
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tamsen_ikard

Captain
Registered Member
Overbom said:
Of all the major Western leaders, Macron is probably the most charismatic.
Even in this thread you can see that effect.

Anyway, I tend to not focus that much to individual leaders and instead prefer to see things from an overall point of view. Leaving Macron aside, France is a vassal territory of the American Empire. That Macron says a couple of good things and signs some business deals with China doesn't change that fact.
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The biggest problem China faces is the white-European domination of the world. Just surpassing US in GDP and military power is not going to be enough for China to really create a multipolar world. The world has only one pole, that is the white-european "west" which currently hold 60+ trillion dollar in GDP nominal and more than 55% of the global GDP and most of the world's advanced tech and cultural power.

This is the hegemony that China will have to break, if it wants to create space for itself in this world

So, breaking the western alliance and creating feelings of independence is one of the most important tasks China will have to take. France is the probably the best candidate for this. It still has a lot French pride and nationalism that have not fully surrendered to White-European western world order. Past anglo-French animosity means it is still possible to create animosity against anglo-saxon domination of Europe inside the French psyche.

Ultimately as China grows stronger and creates a strong economic relationship with France, it could create enough change in the French mindset to finally break Nato and EU.

So, China needs to give France more and more benefits.
 
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xypher

Senior Member
Registered Member
Fatty said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1644338119318044674

Chinese more happy to see Macron than the French themselves. Maybe he can become a CCP shill after he is ousted from office
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He is the same dude that got butthurt and gave a "call me mr. president" lecture to some kid in a crowd that was greeting him in France, lol. He loves the red carpet treatment and almost exploded from pride when he was treated like that plus his words about personal time with Xi, he prolly thinks that Xi is his best friend or something. I wouldn't be surprised if he did not even mention Ukraine/Taiwan after his handler VDL got left behind.
 
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Stierlitz

Junior Member
Registered Member
While it is true that Macron has an independent streak to him (his advocacy for European Strategic autonomy) and a legitmitate beef with the Anglo-saxons (AUKUS nuclear submarine deal) I still would not trust him. When a push comes to shove, he will be forced to side with the U.S. like the rest of Europe. IMO Chinese attempts to make Europe see the light are futile and I don't think China should spend too much energy and resources on it. Europe is simply a lost cause. They have been on their knees for so long that they forgot what standing up feels like.
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

Field Marshall
Staff member
Super Moderator
Stierlitz said:
While it is true that Macron has an independent streak to him (his advocacy for European Strategic autonomy) and a legitmitate beef with the Anglo-saxons (AUKUS nuclear submarine deal) I still would not trust him. When a push comes to shove, he will be forced to side with the U.S. like the rest of Europe. IMO Chinese attempts to make Europe see the light are futile and I don't think China should spend too much energy and resources on it. Europe is simply a lost cause. They have been on their knees for so long that they forgot what standing up feels like.
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Important thing is sow discord among themselves. No better way to do that than cold shouldering some and lavishly treating others.
 
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tamsen_ikard

Captain
Registered Member
Stierlitz said:
While it is true that Macron has an independent streak to him (his advocacy for European Strategic autonomy) and a legitmitate beef with the Anglo-saxons (AUKUS nuclear submarine deal) I still would not trust him. When a push comes to shove, he will be forced to side with the U.S. like the rest of Europe. IMO Chinese attempts to make Europe see the light are futile and I don't think China should spend too much energy and resources on it. Europe is simply a lost cause. They have been on their knees for so long that they forgot what standing up feels like.
Click to expand...

Europe is most certainly not a lost cause. Current europe is dominated by Pro-US liberal elites. The goal of these elites is to promote western hegemony and reduce ethnic nationalism. But there is a huge far right movement going on in many countries including France. These far right movements are anti-EU and anti-West. Ofcourse they are not pro-China at the moment but they are pro-Russia.

Europe's animosity against China will increase in the next 10-15 years when the west will feel it still has a chance to beat down and contain China. But if China can continue to grow and surpass US in GDP and catches up in tech, Chinese competion could create huge economic crises in Europe and the west in general. This economic crisis could fuel the far right and also reduce this democracy is superior, west is superior type of mentality in Europe's poorer countries. This is a long term project that will continue for the next 50 years.

France, Spain, Italy all great colonial empires in the past are prime targets of Far Right's rise. These far right movement could resort to nationalism and nostalgia for past glory and reject anglo-saxon domination. This could ultimately break the western alliance.

So, China still has long term chance of breaking the western alliance in Europe.
 
TK3600

TK3600

Colonel
Registered Member
tamsen_ikard said:
Europe is most certainly not a lost cause. Current europe is dominated by Pro-US liberal elites. The goal of these elites is to promote western hegemony and reduce ethnic nationalism. But there is a huge far right movement going on in many countries including France. These far right movements are anti-EU and anti-West. Ofcourse they are not pro-China at the moment but they are pro-Russia.

Europe's animosity against China will increase in the next 10-15 years when the west will feel it still has a chance to beat down and contain China. But if China can continue to grow and surpass US in GDP and catches up in tech, Chinese competion could create huge economic crises in Europe and the west in general. This economic crisis could fuel the far right and also reduce this democracy is superior, west is superior type of mentality in Europe's poorer countries.

France, Spain, Italy all great colonial empires in the past are prime targets of Far Right's rise. These far right movement could resort to nationalism and nostalgia for past glory and reject anglo-saxon domination. This could ultimately break the western alliance.

So, China still has long term chance of breaking the western alliance in Europe.
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Sowing discord in the alliance is good. France can get more face than others making other white country jealous. I don't expect France to pull a Saudi Arabia, but making them suspicious of each other is enough.
 
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