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FriedButter

Brigadier
Registered Member
Russia is one of the world's leading natural resource powers. Russia will not be a junior partner in any block.

China cannot fall into the arrogance of Europe, which, following orders from the US, lost all the competitiveness that once had and is now losing ground in the world.

Just gonna say. The only ones who is pushing that type of language is the Western officials and media with the purpose of driving a wedge in public influence to affect the relation. China and Russia isn’t going out of there way to talk about whose inferior and superior.
 

solarz

Brigadier
No. What you describe is vassalage. I pay attention to what words I am using, and as should you. What you describe is vassalage, what I say is junior (economic/diplomatic) partner. The junior partner won't accept blanket orders from the senior partner, but the senior partner has various tools and ways though to influence the decision making of the junior partner if the senior partner wishes to do so.

The US is also making use of various tools to influence the decision making of South Korea and Japan, and yet you don't seem to have any issues calling those countries US vassals.

So what exactly is the difference between "junior partners" and "vassals" again?
 

FriedButter

Brigadier
Registered Member
Apparently, Bloomberg is coping hard over the Russia-China pipeline by saying China said no/meh to Russia. Lol.

Earlier this week, Bloomberg reported that the Chinese leader did not give Moscow “an explicit agreement or even a nod to minimal progress” on the Power of Siberia 2 gas pipeline, which it called Putin’s crucial plan to boost eastward sales of gas, while Russian export infrastructure largely faces West.
According to Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak, Putin and Xi have given orders to prepare the necessary documents for the construction of the route as soon as possible.

On Tuesday, the Russian president said Moscow and Beijing had agreed on almost all the basic points of an agreement on the construction of the new pipeline.
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
The US is also making use of various tools to influence the decision making of South Korea and Japan, and yet you don't seem to have any issues calling those countries US vassals.

So what exactly is the difference between "junior partners" and "vassals" again?
I said I would drop the convo, but it seems you have understood my points on the previous posts, so I consider this another convo

The difference is huge.
S.Korea and Japan (and many others) are part of the American Empire. That alone is sufficient enough to explain the difference between these 2 terms.

Now what do I practically mean when I say part of the American Empire?
These two countries have a sizable number of US troops on their own countries. Does China has troops (nevermind the number) in Russia? No.

Their economy is completely controlled by the US. Not by directly looking at the trade data, but instead looking at the tech IP. US holds the IP for everything these two countries do. Biden with a stroke of his pen could delete their economies if he wanted. Does China have a similar kind of control to Russia? No. However, with China increasingly becoming the only high-tech exporter to China, we could see Russia getting in a similar position in >5-10 years. So that's something to keep in mind here. Not that China would use it as a threat, but merely the possibility of it would signal that Russia has taken a junior partner role because Russian policy makers would be double and triple worried to not be against China.

3rd. Currency. What currency do they use. The entire American Empire has marching orders to support their master's currency, the dollar. (If you ask about Euro, it is a complex case and there were a lot of intertwined objectives when creating it). But in any case, either dollar or euro its all western currency, and the US never hesitates to sabotage its vassal's currency (otherwise known as harvesting). Now what about Russia and China, is Russia supporting RMB as much as possible? No, but as for yesterday it seems the answer is yes. Of course this will also take a long time (5-10 years?), but the statements yesterday were very clear on that. So on currency, Russia on the long term will be on similar situation that other countries are with dollars.

4th. Diplomacy. Here, the less said the better. The US has (or trying to gain) full control of its vassal's diplomacy. And does China do the same with Russia? No! Russia is a full blown independent diplomatic power. The only decline on its diplomatic power will be because its economy will become too small for it to retain influence in world matters (specifically in Central Asia). However, Russia will still remain an independent power.

5th. Culture. Same with above, the less said the better. Western societies must drink the US-served cultural poison. There is no possibility of rebellion here. So what about Russia, does China forces its culture to Russia? No! In fact, Russia is more European oriented than Asian (Nevermind China).

6th. Media. Need I say any more? Same story. Does China have control of Russia's media/MSM? No!

7th. "Alliances". The whole American Empire territories serve the US under NATO (US basically) or other kinds of formal "alliances" (pledges of defence basically to the US). Does China have something similar with Russia? No!

8th. Military. American Empire territories depend on US military tech/maintenance/expertise/IP. Does Russia depend in a similar manner to China? No!


The most fundamental difference between junior partner and vassal is that the vassal is locked in to forever remain under the boot of its master. No control of economy, tech, currency, diplomacy, geopolitics, military, society, culture, espionage, governance, laws, cyberspace control, etc.

The junior partner can freely jump ship if he wishes so. The junior partner understands that the senior partner is driving the ship, but this ain't a one-man trip. The junior partner can refuse, can object, resist, have opinion, consult, change partners, jumb ship, sometimes play both sides etc.

That's why even though he is called "junior" he is still a "partner" thus "junior partner". Whereas the vassal is a vassal. If your Lord says go and die, you pack up your things and go and die, simple as that
 

Phead128

Major
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
My dispute is with the characterization of Russia as a junior partner in a China-Russia partnership. In any partnership where one partner is characterized as a senior and the other as a junior, it means the senior is in charge while the junior is the subordinate.

What you described is a "Vassalage" relationship, not a junior partnership.

Here is the official definition:
Vassalage: a position of subordination or submission (as to a political power) (
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Junior Partner: a member of a group who has less power or influence than other members. (
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A vassal is by definition a junior partner, but a junior partner is not a vassal. Junior partners by definition, just less influence or power, not necessarily a superior-subordinate relationship.

That, quite simply, is an incorrect description of the China-Russia partnership. China is not in charge, and Russia is not a subordinate.

I think you need to look up the definition of Vassalage and Junior Partnership, it's really that straight forward. Between you twisting "Marriage" and "Comrade-in-arms", and not even understanding the basic definitions, it's really going in useless circles.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Apparently, Bloomberg is coping hard over the Russia-China pipeline by saying China said no/meh to Russia. Lol.



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Seems like projection lol. Why would China say no to cheap energy?

Also didn’t some genius bomb an important pipeline to Europe a while back? Now there is no choice but to redirect the flow of gas.
 
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